Job Discussion Forums

[fluffyhamster]

Yes, to be fair, motivational factors do get at least a mention, Wangdaning (and as Martin says, are points in the syllabus). The set text on my cert was the 2nd edition of Harmer's TPoELT, and I recall it was pretty good on stuff like that and acquisition. Of course, the set text varies, and later editions of the Harmer may've shifted the focus somewhat, but generally whatever set text will cover these topics (if the trainers don't go into 'em explicitly enough). Then there was at least a passing mention of stuff like introducing and encouraging (independent) learning strategies, though I don't recall really giving that enough thought or getting down to actual specific references until after the cert, when I started buying books on esp. vocabulary and lexis in earnest.

[scot47]

As phoney as its founder and the whole IH Empire

http://doosanedu.com/school/international-house-london/haycraft/item01.html

The only preparation for teaching language is a degree in Classics, Modern or Oriental Languages. This TEFLOLOGY and Methodology is mere flimflam.

I expect the usual dismissal of my ideas by the agents of reaction and by this cabal -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCLES

[fluffyhamster]

Say what you like about John Haycraft and IH (he seemed a decent enough guy), but you just don't get stuff like "She's removing her stockings" then "She's removed her stockings" anymore. UCLES has thrown the baby out with the burlesque! Boo!

This just in from a friend who's thinking of teaching English: "Dear Scot47, I've studied Sumerian and been involved on a number of archaeological digs in the area once know as Mesopotamia, during which we unearthed several statues of Pazuzu. I'm actually the last surviving member of those digs, as all my colleagues suffered grisly and mysterious deaths while doing Grammar Translation courses at the seminary in Georgetown. Will I be a suitable candidate for the CELTA, or will an exorcism first be required?"

[scot47]

Experience in excavation ? We can offer well-paid jobs on the new Baghdad Metro Construction Project5.

[fluffyhamster]

"Dear Scot47: Pazuzu and I are interested primarily in English teaching, for the opportunities it offers to possess additional minds and souls. Consequently the CELTA then DELTA, with an eye to becoming a CELTA trainer, seems to us the only way to go. I will however be passing your helpful heads-up along to some archaeologists, as it's reminded Pazuzu that he has a few statues still waiting to be unearthed in the vicinity of the Baghdad Metro Construction Project5. Sincerely, Reverend Seamus O'Flammerty SJ"

[LongShiKong]

[Sashadroogie]

More black and blue, as well as Red all over.

Glad to see the hamster-wheel still creaking away in my absence. Yet brings to mind the well-known Russian proverb, when the Vozhd's away, the hamsters will play. And not even playing devil's advocate. Sincerely held views. Got to admire the tenacious hold on a position, no matter how at odds with the rest of received opinion. Warms the heart, so it does. Bravo!!

[fluffytwo]

I was re-reading Doomer's excellent post at the top of page 21 when a bit in a reply below it caught my eye:

[brisket]

I did CELTA, and I've been teaching for a few years now post-course. First ESL abroad, and now teaching migrants/refugees in my home country of New Zealand. My thoughts:

The CELTA is doctrinaire, inflexible, and ignores masses of alternative methods that may be as or more efficient ways to learn English. I absolutely understand why it persists, though, because it does teach A Way to teach. Not The Only Way, not The Best Way, but A Way.

On top of which, it fulfils a valuable function as a test of basic competence. I know most people pass the course, but some certainly get weeded out by their inability to deal with students (or perhaps prepare logical lessons, or convince tutors you are a safe individual to be around, etc.). In an industry with such an itinerant workforce, I understand why schools like to use it a gatekeeping method. A CELTA-style lesson delivered adequately, even by a jaded, mediocre teacher, will have some educational value. It won't be exceptional, but it won't be a complete waste of time.

The way I teach now is probably one-third CELTA. Certain basic concepts that get drilled into you are indeed very useful. If you're provided with a standard set of textbooks, you can have a career as an OK English teacher just by doing what you were taught in CELTA. If you want to be really good though, you'll have to spend a lot of your own time learning about alternative approaches -- and brushing up on phonology... And in the end, none of that is quite as important as having the right temperament and social skills.

So I'm pro-CELTA overall. It does a great job given that it's taken over a very very short time for a professional qualification. It's limited by nature. What's really lacking is well-structured coaching in alternatives, in a format that's accessible to practicing teachers. That would probably require an investment in professional development that employers would be very reluctant to make.

[scot47]

CELTA is all about the outdated 1960s Touchy-Feely approach of International House. As outdated as the Comintern.

[Hod]

This thread's years old, but no one's suggested an updated version of the CELTA. There's nothing much to update apart from the use of IT.

Such courses are like learning to drive or dare I say it becoming a newly-qualified doctor. You've got the qualification, now get the experience. That applies to CELTA or the MA, which must also be outdated.

[fluffytwo]

This thread is only a few years old, and clearly still relevant: there may be just few ways to "qualify", but there is certainly more than one way to teach what should be a living language. The "It's better than nothing!" style of line though, hmm, UCLES really should use that in their advertising, very reassuring and inspiring. Beats minimal tinkering every few decades.

As for experience on top of the qualifications, it seems it teaches some (including trainers~writers, who really should know better) very little or nothing judging by the rubbish they can push. Forget basic competence (or rather, "professionalism"), a basic grasp of things such as communicative function would be nice. Which is where the supposed qualifications should've come in.

[LongShiKong]

Seems someone disappeared our beloved OP, Comrade Sasha Droogie. Given that it happened soon after the CELTA-YL disappeared, one wonders.

[bograt]

[fluffytwo]

And quite what is it that you think you add to the forums, bograt (other than posts like you just made)?

I know you haven't offered many activity ideas over the years, given that you apparently support a CELTA-like approach, but to suggest that I've never offered anything to replace it simply isn't true, is it. In fact I gave several suggestions back on page 17 or 18 of this very thread; then, there is the infamous 'Perfect lesson' thread in which a bog-standard set of third conditional activities got replaced (to cheers from at least the OP) with stuff crafted with a stronger hull and surer rudder. Just two instances off the top of my head.

I don't think it would actually be possible to fairly criticize something without offering better alternatives, and I am one of the very few people on these forums who bothers to do that than engage in ad hominems. Sorry if presenting facts and norms of usage and activities based on them seems like sniping, but the language is what it is and should be respected as such by any self-respecting, bona fide teacher.

As for my CELTA (CTEFLA), as I've said before, on the face of it I accepted without murmur everything the trainers said, and wished the argumentative northern guy would shut up simply so the formal day could be over that bit quicker. There were however certain things that will always be quite unconvincing, such as overly simple~rhetorical presentationese, or the endless checking of comprehension not because of any genuine difficulties, but just to cross off box-tick criteria during TP. Feel free to argue for stuff like that if you want though, I'm not stopping you.