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hagiwaramai
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium
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 Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Rolling Stone
I understand and agree with a lot of what you're saying, but every job is the same at the end of the day. They're just what you do everyday so if this is what you want to do then of course you're going to be interested in the business. And EFL is ironically, compared to the pay and conditions, one of the most rewarding jobs out there. What kind of jobs were you thinking are worth this kind of consideration? |
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RollingStone
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| hagiwaramai wrote: |
Rolling Stone
I understand and agree with a lot of what you're saying, but every job is the same at the end of the day. They're just what you do everyday so if this is what you want to do then of course you're going to be interested in the business. And EFL is ironically, compared to the pay and conditions, one of the most rewarding jobs out there. What kind of jobs were you thinking are worth this kind of consideration? |
The jobs that stand on their own, rather than because they are considered essential for doing something else. I bet there are plenty who jump for jobs because the job offers the chance to do what the person really wants - ie travel. The job is considered the necessary evil, the means to the end. You would likely agree that the mass of labour employed in Japan's ESL industry are there because the job is the means to the end. |
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hagiwaramai
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| RollingStone wrote: |
| hagiwaramai wrote: |
Rolling Stone
I understand and agree with a lot of what you're saying, but every job is the same at the end of the day. They're just what you do everyday so if this is what you want to do then of course you're going to be interested in the business. And EFL is ironically, compared to the pay and conditions, one of the most rewarding jobs out there. What kind of jobs were you thinking are worth this kind of consideration? |
The jobs that stand on their own, rather than because they are considered essential for doing something else. I bet there are plenty who jump for jobs because the job offers the chance to do what the person really wants - ie travel. The job is considered the necessary evil, the means to the end. You would likely agree that the mass of labour employed in Japan's ESL industry are there because the job is the means to the end. |
Maybe, but again I'd hazard that the percentage of people who actually enjoy the work itself in EFL, and in EFL in Japan, is substantially higher than in almost any other industry.
And what jobs do "stand on their own"? What do you mean by that? Every job is a means to an end, be that money or the opportunity to travel or whatever. You could compare EFL in Japan to any other job if that's your reason. I would understand it more if you compared EFL in Japan to fast food work in terms of the job conditions, but not the work itself. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:44 am Post subject: Re: re |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Solar Strength wrote: |
| metropolis wrote: |
| It is sad, but some of the ALT dispatch companies have ruined English teaching here in Japan. |
What a great summary of what it's like working for giant eikaiwa chains. |
yeah, was just talking to my wife about that. How eikaiwas in order to make more $$$ or rather ����, print and make their students buy their textbooks. Which are almost always error ridden, and are full of archaic/odd English.
Really, a whole bunch of Japanese English learners are being denied a reasonable way to study English. Sadly enough |
It's true but, to be honest, I think the poor standards of the eikaiwa gakkou industry are a symptom, rather than a cause.
Most of the English teaching in Japan happens in junior high schools, high schools and jukus. This is what shapes customer expectations and desires. I think a professionally delivered communicative lesson would be way outside most customers' comfort zone.
My experience working for a mid-sized eikaiwa gakkou chain was not a happy one, and I met very few teachers there who truly liked their jobs. But I won't slam the company: they operated in a tough, competitive market, and they were doing what it took to survive. |
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RollingStone
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| hagiwaramai wrote: |
| RollingStone wrote: |
| hagiwaramai wrote: |
Rolling Stone
I understand and agree with a lot of what you're saying, but every job is the same at the end of the day. They're just what you do everyday so if this is what you want to do then of course you're going to be interested in the business. And EFL is ironically, compared to the pay and conditions, one of the most rewarding jobs out there. What kind of jobs were you thinking are worth this kind of consideration? |
The jobs that stand on their own, rather than because they are considered essential for doing something else. I bet there are plenty who jump for jobs because the job offers the chance to do what the person really wants - ie travel. The job is considered the necessary evil, the means to the end. You would likely agree that the mass of labour employed in Japan's ESL industry are there because the job is the means to the end. |
Maybe, but again I'd hazard that the percentage of people who actually enjoy the work itself in EFL, and in EFL in Japan, is substantially higher than in almost any other industry.
And what jobs do "stand on their own"? What do you mean by that? Every job is a means to an end, be that money or the opportunity to travel or whatever. You could compare EFL in Japan to any other job if that's your reason. I would understand it more if you compared EFL in Japan to fast food work in terms of the job conditions, but not the work itself. |
Your comments are completely ignorant and argumentative. I used the most basic facts about ESL work environment which you deny on the basis that all jobs are like those found in your industry? You sound like a total ass. =p LOL! |
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RollingStone
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| hagiwaramai wrote: |
| RollingStone wrote: |
| hagiwaramai wrote: |
Rolling Stone
I understand and agree with a lot of what you're saying, but every job is the same at the end of the day. They're just what you do everyday so if this is what you want to do then of course you're going to be interested in the business. And EFL is ironically, compared to the pay and conditions, one of the most rewarding jobs out there. What kind of jobs were you thinking are worth this kind of consideration? |
The jobs that stand on their own, rather than because they are considered essential for doing something else. I bet there are plenty who jump for jobs because the job offers the chance to do what the person really wants - ie travel. The job is considered the necessary evil, the means to the end. You would likely agree that the mass of labour employed in Japan's ESL industry are there because the job is the means to the end. |
Maybe, but again I'd hazard that the percentage of people who actually enjoy the work itself in EFL, and in EFL in Japan, is substantially higher than in almost any other industry.
And what jobs do "stand on their own"? What do you mean by that? Every job is a means to an end, be that money or the opportunity to travel or whatever. You could compare EFL in Japan to any other job if that's your reason. I would understand it more if you compared EFL in Japan to fast food work in terms of the job conditions, but not the work itself. |
I see. So the vast majority of ESL employees that worked in Japan have worked there for reasons other than it affords them the chance to live in Japan for a year. Wonderful. Glad you took the time to post. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| RollingStone wrote: |
| Your comments are completely ignorant and argumentative. I used the most basic facts about ESL work environment which you deny on the basis that all jobs are like those found in your industry? You sound like a total ass. =p LOL! |
You may, or may not be right about haigawaramai's comments, but at least s/he managed to disagree with you without being personally offensive. |
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hagiwaramai
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| RollingStone wrote: |
| Your comments are completely ignorant and argumentative. I used the most basic facts about ESL work environment which you deny on the basis that all jobs are like those found in your industry? You sound like a total ass. =p LOL! |
You may, or may not be right about haigawaramai's comments, but at least s/he managed to disagree with you without being personally offensive. |
Yes, absolutely pathetic. |
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RollingStone
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, you will notice I made two posts. I thought I was editing the first one as, you are correct, it was not positive and it did not sit right with me (it was late and I guess I was irritated). Turns out my attempt to edit simply created a new post and didn't correct the original. My apologies, it is of course understandable you are offended. The internet is full of stupidity like that and regrettably I (inadvertently) added to it.
I guess my irritation rose from what sounded to me like an argumentative position which at the time I found offensive. Argumentative in the sense that it chooses to ignore some basic, trivial realities of the ESL industry. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| RollingStone wrote: |
| Turns out my attempt to edit simply created a new post and didn't correct the original. My apologies |
I believe that the edit button also allows you to delete a post. |
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RollingStone
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| RollingStone wrote: |
| Turns out my attempt to edit simply created a new post and didn't correct the original. My apologies |
I believe that the edit button also allows you to delete a post. |
Likely what I did was click on quote when I thought I was clicking on edit. You can see the posts are separated by 1 min, indicating the seconds it took for me to change my mind and "edit" the post. Anyway, apologies to all. That sort of posting is ridiculously lame. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| RollingStone wrote: |
| Pitarou wrote: |
| RollingStone wrote: |
| Turns out my attempt to edit simply created a new post and didn't correct the original. My apologies |
I believe that the edit button also allows you to delete a post. |
Likely what I did was.... |
I think you missed the hint.
You should delete the offending post. |
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RollingStone
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| RollingStone wrote: |
| Pitarou wrote: |
| RollingStone wrote: |
| Turns out my attempt to edit simply created a new post and didn't correct the original. My apologies |
I believe that the edit button also allows you to delete a post. |
Likely what I did was.... |
I think you missed the hint.
You should delete the offending post. |
Well, it's hard to unring the bell. I would have deleted it immediately. However, I have left it on for two reasons: firstly, the times between the two posts, as I mentioned, appear to corroborate my sincere mistake and secondly, it has already been copied and posted elsewhere. If the moderators need to look at this incident I would rather they have everything up front. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:15 am Post subject: |
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It's funny, when I originally posted this topic, I thought I would take a lot of heat from AEON employees. After all, I was sent home from the program during the first week.
I think the discussion has gotten bogged down on tertiary issues. I don't blame anyone for this, as I know that posts can veer off into different directions naturally, but I want to get this discussion back to the original topic.
Even though I was the one sent home, I then proceeded to hold AEON at least partly to blame, for this specific reason: I had to provide a full lesson on the second day of training, but we weren't given the script to follow until the first day. Meanwhile, there was a period of months in which AEON could have provided this script and accompanying information, and I would have devoured it.
AEON is nothing if not exact in which they do things. I got a document with a full page of pictures of suits that were acceptable and not acceptable, and then a full page of shoes that were acceptable and not acceptable. The policy manual was nothing if not thorough. There was no shortage of rules to follow, whether it's telling teachers to avoid crossing their legs, or what to think when a Japanese national gets up in the subway when you sit down. (Their answer: it's because the Japanese person is afraid he or she would want to start a conversation. I don't think that's true.)
Yet when it comes to methodology, the only thing provided in advance was a website that required a code. Yes, there were sample lessons. But the specific methodology was never provided.
If AEON really prizes its product, why not provide its hired teachers with the chance to learn the exact methodology that its teachers are required to follow on the second day of orientation?
I want someone from AEON to explain this to me. I really do. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| I think the discussion has gotten bogged down on tertiary issues. |
Sorry about that.
| rslrunner wrote: |
| I had to provide a full lesson on the second day of training, but we weren't given the script to follow until the first day.... I got a document with a full page of pictures of suits that were acceptable and not acceptable ... The policy manual was nothing if not thorough.... Yet when it comes to methodology ... the specific methodology was never provided. |
From what you're telling me now, the most likely explanation is that they want to protect their methodological "secret sauce".
I'd be pretty surprised if it was anything like as special as they believed. Most of the methodology training I've seen in Japan (at least until you get to MA level) is the blind leading the blind. Even so, if they've figured out how to package and distil it into a precise set of instructions that a beginner can follow with reasonable success, that must be worth something.
Um ... if you still have access to some of this documentation, I'd be interested to read it. Just for curiosity's sake, you understand. |
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