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DLIguy
Joined: 29 Jun 2013
Posts: 167
Location: Being led around by the nose...by you-know-who!
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 Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| santi84 wrote: |
Nellychess, all quips aside, I'm sorry if you felt my suggestions were not useful. This is still a discussion forum for teachers, so we do occasionally blurt out what we are really thinking, and not necessarily a softened version.
You don't sit around and talk about the weather in teacher training, you spend months (or years, for some of us) learning about these issues, reading about them, coming up with solutions, and dealing with them in student teaching environment. So, my most useful suggestion is that you really should take teacher training before becoming a teacher. I know many people don't want to do that, but in the end, this video is an example of what happens when people think that speaking English is good enough to teach English.
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In a nutshell, this is the state of the industry since it began to form. This is especially the case with those fools that they've been bringing into Saudi Arabia over the past few years on shady visas because they own unrelated degrees.
"How DARE you find fault with me just because you have a linguistics degree! I'll have you know that I have an 'A-Pass' in Monkey Management!"
As long as charlatans, like the poser in the video continue to spread their ineptitude, TESL/TEFL/TESOL/App.Ling. will never receive the respect that its serious purveyors deserve.
THERE! I said it!
Nellychess: From your profile..."Occupation: Tennis Instructor"
I pray that that's your sense of humour! |
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nellychess
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 187
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Nellychess: From your profile..."Occupation: Tennis Instructor"
I pray that that's your sense of humour! |
That was from years ago. I've been wanting to do this for many years. I finally decided to take the plunge. If my first year goes well, I will get my CELTA.
I'm very excited. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| If my first year goes well, I will get my CELTA. |
Cart before horse. Though, fair enough, you're heading somewhere you'll be one of many.
Seriously, difficult for one's first year to go well without much idea of how teaching is done well in such a situation.
Let me also add that CELTA candidates with experience teaching before the course sometimes struggle to let go of habits and concepts they've developed prior to the course. If you've really got to do it in this way, at least be aware that what might 'feel right' in your first year, or what you may learn from other untrained teachers, may need to be scrapped in training.
This is why better employers don't count experience gained prior to certification. |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Agree 100% with Spiral here. Why? Because it happened to me.
Fortunately for the student population at large, I was only let loose in a teaching environment for a few weeks - and not for an entire year.
When I came to do my training, I was amazed, AMAZED, that you do not read out the rules from Thompson & Martinet and expect students to get it via osmosis.
I was young, no real 'business' experience to fall back on, so training helped me see what was good vs bad practice, what to look for in teaching materials, how to spot problems and help students overcome them, etc etc.
Lots of people on these forums are less than impressed with the weekend online training you can get, but if you can't afford to do a CELTA yet, I'd suggest you do a short training course before you go to China. They're cheaper, shorter, less intensive, but will give you something to work from. At the very least, you'll have an idea of what's not OK in the classroom. Failing that, a book like "Teaching Large Multilevel Classes" (Natalie Hess, CUP) is also valuable.
Good luck! |
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nellychess
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 187
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Teacher in Rome wrote: |
Agree 100% with Spiral here. Why? Because it happened to me.
Fortunately for the student population at large, I was only let loose in a teaching environment for a few weeks - and not for an entire year.
When I came to do my training, I was amazed, AMAZED, that you do not read out the rules from Thompson & Martinet and expect students to get it via osmosis.
I was young, no real 'business' experience to fall back on, so training helped me see what was good vs bad practice, what to look for in teaching materials, how to spot problems and help students overcome them, etc etc.
Lots of people on these forums are less than impressed with the weekend online training you can get, but if you can't afford to do a CELTA yet, I'd suggest you do a short training course before you go to China. They're cheaper, shorter, less intensive, but will give you something to work from. At the very least, you'll have an idea of what's not OK in the classroom. Failing that, a book like "Teaching Large Multilevel Classes" (Natalie Hess, CUP) is also valuable.
Good luck! |
Just ordered that book you suggested and some others. Thanks !! |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't know Thomson & Martinet was even readable, let alone read-aloudable!    |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| nellychess wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| nellychess wrote: |
| There are however, so many negative people on here that can't even express themselves, or share anything with anyone on here, that I doubt they are good at what they do, regardless of their experience and credentials. |
Yet, making such snarky comments and labeling others who stated the obvious as "negative people" (when that clearly wasn't their intention) solely because you considered their advice unhelpful or lacking isn't likely to garner you much sympathy or support nor have other posters chomping at the bit to use this forum to provide you with the kind of training (yes, training) you need. The reality is, against the advice of others, you chose to take on a teaching job without getting trained, and now you alone---and not a bunch of anonymous strangers on a public forum---own that decision and all the consequences that come with it. Harsh? Perhaps, but it is what it is.
Anyway, the Cafe's teacher forum (http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/) might be more useful to you since it focuses on teaching and not on jobs. It requires separate registration. |
Glad you got your daily fix. Feel better? |
I really don't understand why you are responding to nomad_soul in this manner? |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| nellychess wrote: |
That's fair, but I find it quite interesting that so many will make comments with nothing constructive to say. |
Nellychess, I think part of the reason for the types of responses you are receiving is that you haven't asked very focused, specific questions. Your OP was just "what do you think of this video" (and I think you've gotten that answer). You asked for other videos, and you've found out there are not many out there.
I think if you ask specific, substantive questions, you'll get specific, substantive responses back. As others have said, we can't train you how to teach EFL here, so when you ask broad questions, all we can say is "get some training". |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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What do we understand by 'to critique'? I would imagine most of us would immediately say something along the lines of 'finding fault'. Which many of us did with this video. Those of a more philosophical bent may say it means to 'analyse systematically' or something similar, and intend it to be a neutral word. Many of us did that too with this video, though perhaps to a lesser degree. It is not as if we were viewing a exercise in pure reason, after all.
So, maybe the subject line inadvertently set posters up to offer reviews that were not as glowing and constructive as the original poster desired. Maybe not. Perchance, I'm just rambling on... |
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nellychess
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 187
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="rtm"]
| nellychess wrote: |
That's fair, but I find it quite interesting that so many will make comments with nothing constructive to say. |
Nellychess, I think part of the reason for the types of responses you are receiving is that you haven't asked very focused, specific questions. Your OP was just "what do you think of this video" (and I think you've gotten that answer). You asked for other videos, and you've found out there are not many out there.
I think if you ask specific, substantive questions, you'll get specific, substantive responses back. As others have said, we can't train you how to teach EFL here, so when you ask broad questions, all we can say is "get some training".[/quote]
RTM, QUITE the opposite. Look at my topic ! There are certain people on here who, for whatever reason, completely ignore the question, and look for any, and every opportunity to tell OP's, not just me, that they are not prepared, or qualified to teach conversational English without even addressing anything about the post.
I usually ignore them, but it's a shame that I think they really turn newbies off in these forums. Newbies who in many cases are very serious, want to do a good job, and are looking for help. I did not start this debate. I have dealt with the same people before, as have countless other newbies.
Some of them will even go back and read other posts that you made so that they can attack you! I think that's kind of insane.
Obviously, many types of schools all over the world need teachers. I'm sorry that some people are bitter about that. I'm sure I am going to struggle, but I am going to do the best that I can. I am very grateful for those who offer help, and look forward to helping others myself in the future. |
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DLIguy
Joined: 29 Jun 2013
Posts: 167
Location: Being led around by the nose...by you-know-who!
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Is it bitterness or passion for the craft that you spent years training for and pursuing?
"Bitter" is a harsh, bitter word. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| nellychess wrote: |
| RTM, QUITE the opposite. Look at my topic ! |
I did. All it says is "Please critique this video". That's not as specific as I was thinking would help you the most. What do you want to know about it? e.g., you could ask: Is the teacher talk time appropriate? Is the content age-appropriate? Are the teacher's gestures effective for eliciting student responses? Are the types of resources available to the teacher in the video common in other places? Is choral repetition, as used in the video, a commonly-used and effective technique? Is the vocabulary the teacher used likely to be comprehensible by this level of students? etc.
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| There are certain people on here who, for whatever reason, completely ignore the question |
Maybe you could reiterate, then, what your specific questions are. That might help this thread get back on track.
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| and look for any, and every opportunity to tell OP's, not just me, that they are not prepared |
But... you really aren't prepared. I think think all people are suggesting is that before you get a job doing something, you at least learn something about doing it. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that for almost any job. You are making a good start by getting some books to read.
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| I'm sure I am going to struggle, but I am going to do the best that I can. |
To be honest, struggling will probably help you a lot -- to become a good teacher, you really need to struggle in difficult situations, and figure out how to deal with them. |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Nellychess,
You have received some helpful advice here, and you have also been subjected to some sarcastic and unhelpful commentary. I am sorry for the latter, and can see from your own responses how frustrating some of these are. I find a few of these comments fairly provocative myself, although most here are well-intentioned. There are many helpful members who will be blunt and honest in telling you the "unvarnished truth." (Some have posted on this thread.) But unfortunately there are also a few who do not seem to distinguish between "blunt and honest" and rude, judgmental, and condescending.
Sometimes newbies have the notion that teaching English involves nothing more than being able to speak it, and they are utterly dismissive of the need for any training. It is easy to become a bit jaded when repeatedly addressing this attitude. Now obviously you do not fall into this category, even though you have made the decision to begin teaching without any training. Many of us believe this is not a wise decision, but fair enough: as Spiral pointed out, many teachers (tens of thousands at a guess) do start teaching in Asia without prior training.
I see that you intend to obtain a CELTA or equivalent down the road. In the meantime I would like to suggest that you find yourself an on-line course. (Yes, I really did say that!) You could start by looking at courses such as those offered by Ontesol in Toronto, or ITTO. Both offer TUTORED courses, with well-qualified tutors, which is important. You will be able to ask your tutor questions, tell her your teaching situation, and get specific recommendations for your class size, level, and age. A course should cost you no more than $200-$300. Don't spend more than that!
Johnslat, fluffyhamster, and, if I remember correctly, Dedicated, all have "recommended TEFL texts" threads here, which are worth searching for. Fluffyhamster, in particular, has often suggested books to read for different situations, so it might be worth a PM to ask him for specific recommendations for a large, multi-level, Chinese university class. Also, Bridge, out of Denver, has a good series of TEFL videos that are not very expensive--this might be a good start for you. Bridge is a CELTA provider, and also offers their own proprietary on-site course, as well as an on-line version. (Too expensive, though, for me to recommend their on-line course.)
Anyway, I hope some of this helps. Good luck in China! |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| (Yes, I really did say that!) |
Shock 
But yes, I'd agree that given the circumstances, this would be better than no training at all, and that even an on-line course should be able to offer more real guidance than we can do on the boards here.
I'd also like to say on a slightly off-topic line of thought that some threads (probably including this one) drag on a bit longer than is actually productive (though AGS' most recent post is brilliant and some of the other late posts here are also quite useful). This seems to happen when members of the community argue, either with each other or with the OP.
OP, if you can filter out the arguments, I think there is really a lot of good, healthy red meat here. The 'other' bits are also not necessarily all directed really at you - it's a part of the culture and conversation here which have developed and evolved over years (and continue to do so).
Take what works for you - leave the rest.
At least you're asking and trying, and most of us are giving you due credit for that. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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