Job Discussion Forums

[cmp45]

You may want to go easy with the questions...most of which, if you take some time could figure out on your own...but here's my bit of commonsense advice:
1. You avoid contractors by not applying through them and only check out positions that advertise 'direct hire'. Just ignore the contractors.

2. Yes, you seem to already have answered your own question: sending your CV to prospective institutions you know hire directly.

3. Differences in hiring process: Direct hire you deal directly with the institution; and follow their process. You cut out the middle man.

You ask a lot of complex questions, that can vary from place to place. Their are no simple answers, but if you want to work in KSA, the main thing is to
ensure that you get a proper work visa that enables you to work legally in KSA. Direct hire usually gives you proper work visa, but qualifications and experience will certainly have an impact on the choices available to you.

In the end you search and find direct hire institutions either by word of mouth, websites such as Dave's etc. Then bite the bullet; apply and see what you get. based on previous posts you know what you need to get the better jobs in KSA that at least can pay off loans and support your wife. entry level positions that will only take you so far. You will have to slog it out with low pay, until you find a better opportunity. Perhaps you may find a decent employer that won't treat you like a slave. I am sure there are some out there...

[cmp45]

[ryanlogic]

[cmp45]

Of course...it's up to you to acquire the details of the process; be it through a recruiter or direct hire. Either will tell you what you need to do and if they don't find an agent to do it all for you. If you do a search I am certain you could find detailed information for both. Either on Dave's or else where. Maybe some one will come by and write at length mentioning all the details for you. Some are quite good at it, better than I for shelling out information ...repeatedly Once you apply for and get the job; the institute (direct hire) or recruiter or contractor will get you started with the process. Don't put your cart before the horse, you will not go far that way.
I could come up with hundreds of 'what if...' scenarios, but I already have a full time job so can not spend all day doing that. You already know based on what others have stated ...regarding qualification and experience...measure that with what you have now. If it's not equal at least, you then should know what you need to do. Okay still not sure? Go now and get a teaching job in countries that will accept your current qualifications. Get some experience and while working pay down your loans and upgrade your credentials. Married with baby you say? Hello! You signed up for the full package deal. Just means planning and accepting that married life will slow you down a bit, I guess you are in your 20s if not then get cracking now.
A good paying direct hire KSA Job = (ME) experience + relevant upgraded qualifications.

[ryanlogic]

Married, no child as of yet.

[cmp45]

Based on what you stated about your personal situation, I would take a closer look at Morocco. I dare say an interesting country to spend a few years working that would most likely fit within your lifestyle. However, you need to get started with a one month training course; if you plan teaching ESL. Starting fresh out of university is difficult... High expectations dashed on the rocks of reality.
Surely you had some notion of what you planned to do with the degrees you pursued at university? No?

[scot47]

A CV showing time in Korea may end up in the wastebin. NOT highly regarded in the ME !

[plumpy nut]

[ryanlogic]

[auhruh]

No chance. You won't get any half-decent job in Saudi without at the very least two years' post-CELTA experience, and even then you will be on a single contract and scraping a living at the mercy of your employer, your luck and your wits. Added to that having to sponsor, insure, fly and house your wife while working in allotted single accommodation will only leave you broke at best. At worst you will both be utterly miserable.

Everything in your quals range shouts 'singles for agencies'. A sorry state of affairs, but that's the cynical reality in KSA ELT these days.

If you get an MA in Applied Linguistics, or TESOL, at least 5 years of solid Gulf experience then you MIGHT get something worthwhile, but as things stand you'll just be exploited.

Try Morocco as others suggest. Or Egypt or Libya, prevailing conditions permitting.

Finally, nothing you have mentioned thus far has hinted at an inclination towards the vocation of teaching English. Merely using ELT as a means to an ends to living in a society that (you idealistically perceive) matches your faith. The Saudi classroom can be brutally unforgiving of the most dedicated of teachers. Are you sure you even want to teach? Getting a CELTA is relatively expensive, but will give you the bare minimum of tools to survive in a classroom.

[ryanlogic]

[cmp45]

"It makes me wonder what kind of standards you guys have... I mean we've discussed what constitutes a bad job in Saudi... But what is your idea of a good one?"

You can usually expect higher standards when you get ME. experience and are properly qualified = being treated fairly, honoring what was stated in the contract, (from both sides: employee and employer), work visa/ igama; sponsorship for wife and children, exit and re-entry visas for travel during breaks or weekends, being paid on time, annual pay raises(based on performance),decent accommodation with cable, laundry, annual flights home, travel allowance and / or transport service to work, average 20 hour work week or less, no split shifts, decent overtime potential, medical coverage, own office with computer and internet connection. In return, you do the job you signed up for.

These are some of the benefits offered to those with experience and relevant qualifications most of which you will not recieve if you choose to come over here. Despite all these benefits it can still be difficult dealing with management, administrators, and students. So imagine what life would be like without any of these benefits and having to deal with unscrupulous managemement, administrators and students.

You are not the first nor will you be the last to come on this board with unrealistic expectations. I suggest you read this thread again from the begining and carefully consider the information others have already offered you. I am sure if you really wanted you could find a job in Saudi Arabia. You are confident and have what it takes, then go for it. Nothing like first hand experience - good or bad. You can post all day long and drive your bus in circles, but if you truly want to be living in Saudi Arabia then you do what is necessary to get here. period. You have been told numerous times that you will be working at bottom entry level positions with few benefits, not to mention if things go from bad to worse you will be at the mercy of your employer. In other words, endentured slavery. But heh you will have achieved your goal of living and working in KSA. Just remember: You have been warned about the pitfalls of coming to KSA with limited credentials and experience. If you think your life is miserable now...just come on over then...and experience first hand what it feels like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

[ryanlogic]

[Muhammed Abbas Khan]

Dear Ryan,

Please be aware will be nigh on impossible to speak Modern Standard Arabic (MSA) or even classical Arabic with the locals. This is because they don't speak this way. They, the Saudi nationals, speak with a colloquial form of Arabic. As for other non-Arabs then you really don't want to be speaking a kind of pidgin Arabic as spoken by Indians, Pakistanis and whoever. Classical and MSA Arabic is used, but mostly in religious sermons (you can tune in to 100 FM on the radio) and in the media. As for learning Arabic then I think I commented earlier about the prospects of that, at least for Riyadh anyway.

I will say though that you can easily find additional work, whether by way of private tutoring or freelance in Riyadh. Perhaps after a few years of teaching you can then pursue an MA in TESOL or Linguistics.

As for classroom management, then this is something that you will ultimately have to develop overtime. I found the generality of the students that I taught to be very well mannered and respectful. The same students might be angels with one teacher and be complete miscreants with another teacher. The fault more often than not is with the teacher. Whether it be a lack of preparation on the part of the teacher or whatever. This of course is not true for all teaching contexts. The teacher is not always to blame (we hope).

Regards,

Abbas

[sicklyman]