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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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 Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| likwid_777 wrote: |
| Most people consider ESL teachers to be losers... |
Who exactly are "most people" and why do they have this mindset? |
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likwid_777
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 411
Location: NA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:21 am Post subject: |
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After a bit of consideration:
Most persons in the Western countries actually think that ESLing is cool, and are fascinated by it.
Most persons in China (the only place where I have done it), seem to think that it's cool, due to ESLers receiving a reasonable salary. Not to mention, many Chinese like to pretend to be friends with ESLers for free English lessons by way of conversation. So, much smoke is blown up said ESLer's posteriors by these types.
I think it's actually the other expats in these countries who look down upon ESLers. Then, it's the other ESLers themselves who propagate this mentality.
"All ESLers are losers, except me of course. I'm the only one who has principles, is a good teacher, is incredible with the ladies, and could have a corporate empire back home if I was only so materialistic to bother". |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| likwid_777 wrote: |
| Most persons in the Western countries actually think that ESLing is cool, and are fascinated by it. |
Yep, taht's what I get when I go home, "Wow, you have SUCH a cool job" You have five MONTHS of paid vacation?! You only work four days a week?! You can afford private tutors and international vacations?! Wow, so cool!"
Yeah, I guess. Kind of. Cost of living for some stuff is lower. Daycare is about 250 a month. Other stuff is higher. Want a nice watermelon? Fork over 20 bucks. I suffer from the grass is always greener syndrome. I think, "Wow, you have a husband who works and you stay at home? Wow, he has job stability. You can see your family more than once a year? etc"
People have this rose vision idea of TEFLing. It IS good, but there's lots of sides you don't hear about when you start teaching.
I for one, would like to get out of TEFL. I'd like to stay in education, get into admin, maybe teach Spanish, or something similar. HOWEVER, with that being said, there are simply too many perks and benefits for me to give it up. I can actually spend time with my daughter. I'm a working mom, but half the year I can be a stay at home mom. Maybe we she's a teenager and wants nothing to do with me I can look at trying something else.
I've looked into teaching Spanish at international schools, but turned down the job due to the long hours and similar pay. The only benefit would be free English education? and that isn't what I'm looking for. I'd rather go the tutoring and la dee daaing unschooling route.
Anyways, I totally agree with likwid_777. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| HLJHLJ wrote: |
But that's not special to TEFL. In the UK it's pretty much the norm to expect to be reliant on the state pension (either entirely or as a top up for an inadequate private pension). Retirement age is already 68 and is likely to hit 70 in the foreseeable future. There's no reason why a TEFLer from the UK can't pay their voluntary basic stamp and have that option, the same as if they'd stayed in the UK.
Not that I would call retiring on less than £6,000/yr a great idea, but plenty of people seem happy enough to try. And TEFLers could potentially have more options to retire abroad to somewhere cheaper than the UK. |
Anyone retiring on the UK state pension of £5881 a year will be living in utter poverty. Happy will not enter into such a grim prospect. But that's for people who've paid their full National Insurance contributions, which I'd advise everyone to do. Currently, you'll qualify for some payments with a minimum of ten years' contributions, but this already paltry £5881 will be reduced proportionally.
It’s also wrong to say that most do or will rely on the state pension. Auto enrolment is now in place, which means all employees must have a pension. (https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions).
Retiring abroad is an option, but you’re then at the mercy of visa regulations and currency fluctuations. UK and USA retirees in Thailand, for example, have effectively had a 33% pay cut. Also, the UK State Pension increases yearly in line with average earnings, the consumer price index or 2.5%, whichever is the highest. However, if you retire outside of the EU or a “special agreement” country, your state pension will be frozen. (https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/rates-of-state-pension) |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
Anyone retiring on the UK state pension of £5881 a year will be living in utter poverty. Happy will not enter into such a grim prospect. |
As I said, I'm not saying it's a good plan, just that it's not an uncommon plan. My point was that it's not just people working abroad in TEFL who make dumb choices when it comes to saving for retirement. There's no reason to believe they would have made better choices if they'd stayed home and taken a more traditional career path.
| Hod wrote: |
It’s also wrong to say that most do or will rely on the state pension. Auto enrolment is now in place, which means all employees must have a pension. (https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions). |
Not quite, first the scheme only started in 2012, so it's hard to say how effective it's going to be yet. Given the zero to low contribution rates of low earners (who are the ones most likely to rely on the state pension) it's highly unlikely that they will ever contribute enough to build up a significant private pension. Second it is NOT compulsory to take part. It's compulsory for employers to offer a pension and enrollment is automatic but employees can, and do, opt out. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| HLJHLJ wrote: |
| As I said, I'm not saying it's a good plan, just that it's not an uncommon plan. My point was that it's not just people working abroad in TEFL who make dumb choices when it comes to saving for retirement. There's no reason to believe they would have made better choices if they'd stayed home and taken a more traditional career path. |
That's my concern. TEFLers had something about them to set up abroad in the first place. Why then should they retire to the UK to get the same subsistence income and poor lifestyle as some deadbeat on benefits? The deadbeat won't have any problems adapting his lifestyle upon retirement, but the TEFLer will.
| HLJHLJ wrote: |
| Not quite, first the scheme only started in 2012, so it's hard to say how effective it's going to be yet. |
That's a fair point. It does, however, show that the UK government has done some sums and realised a degree of pension reform was needed. It definitely won't go far enough, but it further emphasises how inadequate the state pension will be.
Any why do TEFLers revert to the lowest common denominator when it comes to pensions? If some school offered you £113.10 a week, you’d spit in their face. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:50 am Post subject: |
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"Baby, even the losers get lucky sometime!"
--Tom Petty
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| likwid_777 wrote: |
I think it's actually the other expats in these countries who look down upon ESLers. Then, it's the other ESLers themselves who propagate this mentality.
"All ESLers are losers, except me of course. I'm the only one who has principles, is a good teacher, is incredible with the ladies, and could have a corporate empire back home if I was only so materialistic to bother". |
Hmm... "incredible with the ladies..." Okey-dokey. Why do I get a sense that the posters in this thread who are using the label of "loser" are under the age of 30...
Anyway, in addition to age, I'd also argue that the country, the host culture, teaching/living situation, and frankly, teaching qualifications as well play a huge role in self-perception and how one believes he/she is perceived or judged by others. People measure themselves based on how others treat them and what they see (or think as) others doing or achieving. (I'm reminded of Cooley's concept of the "looking glass self.") Moreover, they're likely to feel as if they're under more scrutiny from their peers because they're in a very different physical and cultural environment in which they stand out as a minority in the host country unlike being in the majority and inconspicuous in their home country. Also, keep in mind that those who put down others as "losers" do so to puff themselves up because their own self-esteem is fragile. And they're usually aware of it.
Those expats from other countries who you perceive as looking down on ESL teachers are likely being ethnocentric---that is, judging and measuring other groups based on standards ascribed by their own cultural values, language, religion, etc. because their "group" is the center (central) of all things. An ethnocentric generally views others' differences (those outside of the center) as being inferior instead of simply different. It's actually normal for us to be ethnocentric because it's tied to our cultural identity. Whether one recognizes it and/or decides to act on it is key.
I suggest curbing the self labeling; labels are best on cans of soup and jars of jam. Figure out what it is you want to do and quit trying to impress others based on their personal standards or interpretation of who you are. As Steve Jobs stated, "Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma -- which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice." |
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likwid_777
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 411
Location: NA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| likwid_777 wrote: |
I think it's actually the other expats in these countries who look down upon ESLers. Then, it's the other ESLers themselves who propagate this mentality.
"All ESLers are losers, except me of course. I'm the only one who has principles, is a good teacher, is incredible with the ladies, and could have a corporate empire back home if I was only so materialistic to bother". |
Hmm... "incredible with the ladies..." Okey-dokey. Why do I get a sense that the posters in this thread who are using the label of "loser" are under the age of 30... |
Nomad Soul, those words inside the quotation marks in my post, which you quoted, were a construct. Those words contained illustrative elements of the idea that some ESLers think they are exemplars of professionalism and coolness, in an otherwise cesspool of loser-ish filth.
The intention of this construct, was actually echoed by your words, "Also, keep in mind that those who put down others as "losers" do so to puff themselves up because their own self-esteem is fragile. And they're usually aware of it" (nomad soul).
The impression that I got over there was that some were like that. And the types which I refer to, in my gut feeling, were those real back stabby types. Those who would try to screw over other teachers for some imagined benefits. Usually such benefits didn't even really exist, nor were they worth having (ie being the so called friend of the DOS, for example). Ah, language mills.
I have not referred to ESLers as losers, only which types of individuals (that I feel) see ESLers as such. That's from a limited experience, and is why I chose a construct to illustrate my thoughts, as I don't have cutting edge graphs and figures like the CFTU. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| On Planet Earth most people do jobs they hate. They work because they need the money. How is TEFL/TESOL any different ? |
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Landon
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| On Planet Earth most people do jobs they hate. They work because they need the money. How is TEFL/TESOL any different ? |
I think this is true, although they want you to believe something different when you are growing up. "Never work a day in your life if you do something you love". Sure.... its just too bad what I love to do doesn't pay money. I am always suspicious of people that say they can't wait to wake up and be an accountant, or cook you dinner as a chef, or work day and night in an office building.
The giant majority of people are working for money only. That is just the best job they could find to do. I admit, having worked hard and done well for over a decade, I am now interested in TEFL, not because it pays well but because it pays something, and I "think" I can do it. I am ready to get out of the grind; working hard month after to month just to pay my ridiculous mortgage, car payments and bills so I can continue living where I do. And I don't even want to be here in the first place.
Sorry to say, I do not "love" teaching, but I think I can tolerate teaching, while living abroad, experiencing new sites and cultures, etc. ESL does not seem overly hard to get into. If you speak English, have a school degree of any flavor, and have taken a simple certification course for a few hundred bucks you are qualified for many places in the world. That is easier to do than almost any "real" career or trade I can think of in my home country. Possibly one reason it is not highly respected back home; turning us all into losers.  |
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likwid_777
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 411
Location: NA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Landon wrote: |
| ESL does not seem overly hard to get into. If you speak English, have a school degree of any flavor, and have taken a simple certification course for a few hundred bucks you are qualified for many places in the world. That is easier to do than almost any "real" career or trade I can think of in my home country. Possibly one reason it is not highly respected back home; turning us all into losers. |
Well yes, this is what I've heard some detractors say. "Your ONLY skill is that you can speak your native language?"... I guess these days, that's becoming an increasingly rare asset though. Haha. I think there is also an element of some individuals getting almost angry that ESLers are not "playing the game". I mean, they or we are not entering the rat race as they are (having failed previously or not), and many fear what they do not understand. It's kind of like the kid at school who doesn't wish to conform to the recruitment process of the clique. As in, sure kiddo, we would give you hell if you want to join the clique, but you could at least have the courtesy to humour us a tad... |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Landon wrote: |
| ESL does not seem overly hard to get into. If you speak English, have a school degree of any flavor, and have taken a simple certification course for a few hundred bucks you are qualified for many places in the world. That is easier to do than almost any "real" career or trade I can think of in my home country. Possibly one reason it is not highly respected back home; turning us all into losers. |
However, you're only looking at one segment of TESOL. There are many other teachers, holders of TEFL-related MAs, who teach EFL at the university level which usually means taking on any of the following additional responsibilities: participating in focus groups or committees for curriculum review and materials development, textbook review, test creation, and/or extracurricular student activities; attending professional development; presenting/facilitating workshops; mentoring new teachers; and so on. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say that ESL teachers in the US get about the same respect as any other teachers (i.e. very little.) 
However, how much or how little respect my job gets from the general public is something I couldn't care less about.
Regards,
John |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
| I'd say that ESL teachers in the US get about the same respect as any other teachers (i.e. very little.) |
The same can be said about lawyers and politicians.  |
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