Job Discussion Forums

[grayskies]

VS....

Your attack is unfounded. I will not succumb to your failed logic.

Perhaps you should do your homework, and investigate some of the PYP/Foundation units in the Gulf.

And possibly, re-read what another has said, with regards to this topic.

[nomad soul]

[grayskies]

[rollingk]

Sure, there are structures of the curricula of many PYP programs that purport to develop academic writing. These designs can only be effective if there is accountability on the part of the administration and of the students within the program. Overwhelmingly, this does not exist in the Kingdom. The well laid plan to teach APA is a facade, and teachers within these programs generally run about trying to prop it up, without much help from the admin, who don't even understand it or care, or the students, who generally don't give a damn about mind maps much less sourcing, etc.

So long-winded conversations about inadequacy of training of teachers who fill these farcical slots makes little sense really. I agree that many of the teachers can't put together such a paper themselves, but it's not really about doing research or writing at all, but about pretending. Sadly, most of the players are bad actors even so.

[grayskies]

There are some universities which practice true Academic English within their units in the KSA.

It is my intent, to acknowledge the shortcomings of various IEP units across the Gulf, and discuss an improvement.

Some posters have pasted articles from scholars, who have written lengthy (long winded) concerns of the lack of students' English literacy.

It is a subject worth discussion.

[rollingk]

It is worth discussion. I suspect the continual referencing of which clan/tribe to whom a student belongs has much to do with it, don't you? Saudi university admins are chock full of people appointed based on nothing more than this kind of influence. Until the society embarks on a course to remove this debilitating yoke then how in the world can any kind of language, writing or other program hope to be grounded in anything but smoke, mirrors and all manner of other obfuscation.

A sea change is needed, and I suspect this moment to come only when the money starts getting scarcer. Hopefully, this period will last long enough for true accountability to become a value in this society before they are left high and dry, without enough capital to seem like real somebodies anymore.

Saudis must not only be at the forefront of any discussion, but must be active adherents and participants in rejecting the debilitating notions of entitlement based on race, clan and nationality that pervades every single aspect of daily life in their country. Without this happening, discussions about the effectiveness of language programs will indeed be just academic, and if there are programs out there pulling off some form of academic success, they will remain anomalies here, as will the conditions under which they operate. Most Saudis with half a brain know this so they leave to study abroad if able to.

[Rostom]

[grayskies]

Thank you Rollingk.

Everything you've said, is logical.

Let's hope administrators and Saudi heads read this forum.

[johnslat]

Dear greyskies,

"Let's hope administrators and Saudi heads read this forum."

I have to admire (but also smile at) such fantastic optimism. Changes such as those being discussed here would require major cultural and societal attitude adjustments and would take decades to be accomplished - if, that is, they even began to be implemented.

Yes, a sea-change would be needed - but there is no sea in Saudi. When the money starts getting scarcer, the result will more likely be panic and personal feather-bedding rather than any logical transformation into responsibility and accountability in any sector of society. Any attempts to instill such values will be much too little and much too late.

Could I be wrong? Well, I really do hope so, but based on what I experienced during my nineteen years there, I doubt it.

As teachers, while we can conscientiously do our best at our jobs, we're essentially powerless to affect the ingrained world-view of the country.

So, is that pessimism - or is it realism?

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

[grayskies]

VS...

The topic I have created is not about you, and your experience,
nor is it about me.

The topic is preparing students for academia.

In most universities where I've worked, professors have complained that our dept., has not adequately prepared students for their classes.

There are many problems, many to blame, but I prefer to dig deep and come up with solutions.

If there are no solutions, so be it.

[Rostom]

[nomad soul]

[grayskies]

Nomad Soul,

And that would solve....?

[johnslat]

Dear greyskies,

"And that would solve....?"

In my opinion, it would solve exactly as much as what this thread will solve. I leave it to each reader to come up with his/her own answer as to what that would be.


Regards,
John