Job Discussion Forums

[gregory999]

[spiral78]

No argument that he did not follow proper training.

But he was the official school resource officer, not just a cop off the street. The school resource officers are meant to be specialized backup for teachers and admin staff - this one was trained to be in school.

http://cte.jhu.edu/courses/ssn/sro/ses1_act4_pag1.shtml

I'm not defending him, but I'm refuting the notion raised by buravirgil that the teacher in this case had no support staff - both the principal and this supposedly specially trained police officer were there to help (in theory).

[johnslat]

1. I consider clarity to be important in writing.

2. Classroom management is a skill that can often be learned. If someone has been slapped, kicked, and punched numerous times in classrooms, that would suggest to me that person may not have learned it too well.

Regards,
John

[gregory999]

[spiral78]

Dear John

Well, after all, I must admit that I've never been slapped, kicked, or punched in a classroom. Not sure what that says about my classroom management skills.

Further, perhaps oddly, I have garnered consistently high student evaluations over 18.5 years, and the three institutions for which I've worked full time all continue to employ me (one full time and the other two for projects).

Not sure what that might say about my classroom management skills, either, but I've never had any issues with cellphone use in class, or any other disruptive behavior beyond the common cold (which can be rather disruptive, indeed).

Please do let me know if anything in this post was unclear to you. I'll do my best to rectify any instances of cloudy meaning.

Best,
spiral

[johnslat]

Dear spiral,

HUH?????

Regards,
John

[spiral78]

Dear John

Yes, too much information. I thought so.
But won't edit the post, as that would make your response lose clarity,perhaps.

Best,
spiral

[buravirgil]

John? Spiral?
These bizarre contortions to accomodate and coddle your own opinion only demonstrate more selective reading than careful. Your proclivity *on this thread* to balk and mock in jags of incredulity is revealed too readily.

For periods of long and short duration, I've worked with populations challenged by issues of physical, cognitive, and behavioral development. I've been slapped and kicked, and hit by a handful of students of the last category.

How could you not notice posts such as the following on the first page?

In 1990, I was trained in "forced time-outs" with elementary children, a discontinued practice except for special education and, in 2007, trained in that environment. There is no research to support physical contact is necessary to effectively discipline students of a normative, developmental classification-- nada.

I'm becoming convinced you're misreading posts to demonstrate the imperative of clarity-- as in, "See? You're not clear and this is its cost!"

I don't mince words well. I tend to work on paper (documentation, procedure) and the forum lends itself to a casual and conversational tone. I believe you've intrepreted much of my writing as competitive in some way because that's the response I'm seeing-- competitive. I'd do anything to return the thread to its first page because systemic failure is a serious issue and fear and intimidation in schools are execrable.

[johnslat]

I have no interest in competing with you in any area. Your prose is, in my opinion, convoluted and dense, but I'm sure that's not going to change.

I'm glad that it's been only a handful students who physically assaulted you rather than its happening on numerous occasions.

I assure you that I have no motive in misreading you posts. In fact, I only wish they were easier to decipher - but that's not going to happen.

Why not start another thread of classroom management. I promise that I won't contribute to it.

Regards,
John

[buravirgil]

[spiral78]

Buravirgil, you're assigning deep, convoluted, and inaccurate motivations to my posts. Your crystal ball regarding what's in the minds of other posters probably needs a good scrub.

Or something.

[buravirgil]

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

Back to the original topic. (bv is gone).

The only other thing that the officer could have done was to have dragged the student AND the desk out into the hall and arrested her. (Why not arrest her? Third-graders have been arrested for pointing fingers like guns and for bring cookies to school that have been shaped like guns under the Zero Tolerance policies adopted by many schools. Oh yeah, and for kissing another student. That was sexual harassment).

The student had a chance to leave of their own volition, but she didn't. That was when the officer acted as he did. It is obvious to me that such an incident was not the first. Videos shot by other students show students who didn't even look up during the event.

If she was so disengaged that she preferred to play with her phone, she could have left. Instead, she got what she wanted. Let's not fool ourselves.

I've worked in inner city schools that didn't have officers on campus. Those who have worked inner city know what it's like to walk to their cars after class to find their cars surrounded by thugs who were probably armed and looking for trouble.

Police/armed guards are brought onto campus because administration won't/can't deal with such situations because teachers are outranked and outnumbered. Teachers know that whatever they do will be deemed inappropriate.

When the police/armed guards are fired for handling the matter physically because nothing else works, the spineless administration/school board fires him. That's the end of the line and the end of adult control. The thugs win.

In this case the guard was fired and thugs won.

That's why I'll never work in a public high school again.

You can talk forever about studies regarding physical removal and reasoning with miscreants, etc., but the fact remains that unless the problem is removed promptly and decisively, the problem spreads, and eventually, the entire school turns to****flushed****.

Fact.

[spiral78]

[adventious]