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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like I'm the one who hit a nerve, huh? 
| Lamarr wrote: |
Why is that funny? Do you make a habit of laughing at other people's career choices? Is that because you're kind of like the God of university teaching and look down on everyone else? |
Nobody's laughing at your career choices--frankly, I have no idea what you do for a living, nor do I really care. For all I know, you might be the foreign vice president of Mitsubishi Corp., making three times my salary!
That said, you came into a thread on a topic you've confessed you know nothing about--you've never even worked at a university before!--and then announced that much of the information posted to this thread is "absolute, utter garbage." You then proceeded to give the OP information which was misleading and/or incorrect, information that might cause him--assuming he's legit and not just trolling us--to do something that could impact not just his career but his family's lives. I do have an issue with that. Given his Thai MA TESOL, his lack of Japan-related work experience, his lack of Japanese language skills, his age, and his lack of publications, the OP will have a very difficult time finding any full-time university work in Japan (let alone a job at Kanda Gaigo!  ). Will it be impossible for him to find work? No. However, as I'd written earlier in this thread, I personally would not want to give up employment security at home to come to Japan now...with a family to support. (As the OP has since related that he would be able to keep his job in Thailand even if he came to Japan, I have changed my stance--as long as there's no real risk, why not take a chance?)
I post rarely to Dave's--maybe forty times per year, invariably on the limited number of topics (university employment and labor law mainly) I know reasonably well. I also almost always back up my assertions with links to primary sources which support my points (and may be useful to readers). You have provided neither first-hand experience nor links, just, well, insults. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Inflames wrote: |
This is a bit off-topic, but while it is rare for foreign faculty teaching English to have a degree from a non-English speaking country, lots of tenured foreigners have degrees from universities in Japan. The difference is that they don't teach languages. |
I agree--indeed, I made the same point on page two of this very thread. Foreign graduates of Japanese universities (assuming the field is not English) tend to do quite well, in my experience.
Several of the foreign faculty at my school have PhDs from Japanese universities, including one guy whose field of study is 日本史 (Japanese history). My hat's off to him--I certainly couldn't to it! |
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croyfish
Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I didn't mean to set off a shouting match. I just wanted to get some information to help me make an important decision and see what the prospects were like over there. Guess this forum is always kind of like this?
The responses have really helped me put my career in perspective and shown what a vast distance I'd have to cover to get from here to where I was considering I might be able to go. Even my friend who was hired with an MA and little else admitted to me today to applying to 20 universities over a 1 year period while already in country and getting only one bite, not to mention being quite a few years younger and single at the time.
Even after all that effort, he's probably not going to stick around much longer, likely for many of the reasons mentioned here.
Uni teaching in Japan may have to remain a pipe dream for me, and I certainly won't make any drastic life changes based on a hope that probably won't come to fruition and may wear out its welcome rather quickly even if it does.
For all of these reasons, I'm going to leave this thread at that but keep it open if anyone else wants to ask or discuss anything related. Thanks all. |
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moviefan1987
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| 3.6m-yen plus bonuses would probably be 4.2m-yen a year I guess. That's not a bad wage to be going on with if he has chances of promotion |
Unfortunately, the 3.6m-yen a year figure includes his bonus. The problem is that salaries in Japan are really low for a lot of people. My Japanese partner here does bilingual sales type work at a rather large eikaiwa company and only gets paid 180,000 yen a month. Last year her company gave out no bonuses. With good TEFL qualifications, the Middle East could be a good destination, but I think what keeps a lot of people in Japan is the lifestyle. (Not the pay!) It's possible to build a niche here outside of teaching at universities, though. I wouldn't dissuade the OP from giving it a go here. |
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croyfish
Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually, one last question, then. Though a masters from a non-native English speaking country wouldn't be enough for a full-time university job, how would a PhD from such a country be seen? On par with a masters from elsewhere, or still not even considerable? |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| Looks like I'm the one who hit a nerve, huh? |
Indeed, by singling a particular poster out for direct, personal insults.
| taikibansei wrote: |
| Nobody's laughing at your career choices--frankly, I have no idea what you do for a living, nor do I really care. For all I know, you might be the foreign vice president of Mitsubishi Corp., making three times my salary! |
To answer yet more inaccurate and untrue statements in your post:
1. I haven't "confessed to knowing nothing about" the topic. I've already given information about it that came from someone who works in the field. Not working at a university before doesn't preclude you from knowing anything about how universities work, you silly fool.
2. I didn't say "most of the information on this thread is absolute, utter garbage". I said some of it was, and clarified exactly who I was referring to. If you learn to read properly, you might avoid wetting the bed about this again, not to mention be able to do your supposed job as an English educator better.
3. Can you point to exactly what information I gave that was "misleading or incorrect"?
| taikibansei wrote: |
| I post rarely to Dave's--maybe forty times per year, invariably on the limited number of topics (university employment and labor law mainly) I know reasonably well. I also almost always back up my assertions with links to primary sources which support my points (and may be useful to readers). You have provided neither first-hand experience nor links, just, well, insults. |
Well bully for you, Mr. Expert. What do you want, a kiss on the foot? I never even purported to provide "first-hand experience". You're the one who started the insults by taking personally a general comment I made, then directing a bunch of insults at me. Don't complain if it comes back at you.
You really don't do the image of university educators, if that's what you really are, any favours behaving like this.
Last edited by Lamarr on Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| moviefan1987 wrote: |
| My Japanese partner here does bilingual sales type work at a rather large eikaiwa company and only gets paid 180,000 yen a month. Last year her company gave out no bonuses. |
That sounds about average for eikaiwa sales/reception work, perhaps with overtime on top.
To the OP, the English teaching scene has got tougher in Japan in the last 5-10 years. Obviously the better-qualified, better-experienced you are in the kind of teaching you want to do, and the more experience you have of living in Japan, and/or family ties to the country, plus the more language ability you have, the more chance you have of getting something.
I wouldn't recommend coming in doing eikaiwa or ALT dispatch work, unless you're young and single, or just looking to do a year in Japan or career break. I'd advise getting qualified and starting off building a career back home or where you are now, then looking to move to Japan with that career. So if you want to do university work, get an MA and start building up your experience where you are, or in another country even.
The friend I referred to working at the uni above worked for a few years at another uni abroad before he got his current uni gig in Japan, and he had lived for 5 years in Japan previously, doing JET and other English teaching. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamarr wrote: |
I didn't say "most of the information on this thread is absolute, utter garbage". I said some of it was, and clarified exactly who I was referring to. |
No, you clarified nothing. Take a look at what you wrote initially again. However, I'm beginning to think the problem is that you didn't bother to read the OP (original post), let alone the full thread, before posting about the "absolute, utter garbage" posted on this thread. For instance, if you had read the OP, you wouldn't have written this:
| Lamarr wrote: |
So if you want to do university work, get an MA and start building up your experience where you are, or in another country even. |
The OP has an MA TESOL and teaching experience.
If you had read the other posts in this thread, you would have realized that this:
| Lamarr wrote: |
To the OP, the English teaching scene has got tougher in Japan in the last 5-10 years. Obviously the better-qualified, better-experienced you are in the kind of teaching you want to do, and the more experience you have of living in Japan, and/or family ties to the country, plus the more language ability you have, the more chance you have of getting something. |
is the exact same advice that every single other poster before you had given. (Seriously, we've all been saying this from the beginning of this thread.)
If you had read the other posts in this thread, you also would have realized that this:
| Lamarr wrote: |
I wouldn't recommend coming in doing eikaiwa or ALT dispatch work, unless you're young and single, or just looking to do a year in Japan or career break. |
makes no sense to the OP's situation.
Finally, this:
| Lamarr wrote: |
The friend I referred to working at the uni above worked for a few years at another uni abroad before he got his current uni gig in Japan, and he had lived for 5 years in Japan previously, doing JET and other English teaching. |
Is a far cry from your initial post, where you seemed to suggest that everyone else had been wrong about the difficulties of the current job market, and that the OP could just waltz in and get a job at, say, Kanda Gaigo. Indeed, just to clarify, you now seem to be in complete agreement with all the "absolute, utter garbage" on this thread...so well done on you!  |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| Lamarr wrote: |
I didn't say "most of the information on this thread is absolute, utter garbage". I said some of it was, and clarified exactly who I was referring to. |
No, you clarified nothing. |
There's no point discussing this any more, you're not even reading my posts properly (yet expect me to read yours or other people's), you're just being argumentative and picking holes for the sake of it.
I don't know who you are but you've obviously got serious issues with yourself, to the extent that you're now continuing on with your angry rants taking up space on the thread even more.
Have a think about how that looks to the OP, and anyone else who might be interested in reading this, if you really are that bothered about their situations.
(And God help anyone having to suffer your "teaching") |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Look, the OP asked one last question, and it's a good one. Put up your swords for a minute. |
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twowheel
Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 753
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| currentaffairs wrote: |
| Several US universities have satellite campuses in Tokyo and run popular MA in TESOL courses like Temple and Columbia. |
Teachers College, Columbia University (TC-Tokyo) closed their Tokyo campus and ended their MA in TESOL program, around 2012 I think it was.
Guess who took over that program? KANDA GAIGO. William Snyder was the Director of the TC-Tokyo program. He's now the Assistant Director at Kanda Gaigo. TC legend John Fanselow remains on as well.
http://www.kandagaigo.ac.jp/kuis/grad/language/tesol/
On paper, it looks like a decent program...on paper.
My two yen: I too know people who have taught at Kanda Gaigo. I even visited the campus and gave a guest lecture in one of their classes in June of 2011. Back then it seemed like a nice-enough place and at one point I was considering applying for a position there.
To connect all of this, I have a friend who received an MA in TESOL at TC-Tokyo, taught at Kanda Gaigo, and has moved on to ICU (whew, acronyms!).
Talking to my friend, teaching at universities in Japan may be decent, it may be stressful, it may not be all that. Very mixed bag.
How about teaching at the other "international" universities, i.e., Akita International University? Isn't there one in Niigata as well? Niigata University of International Studies? On paper, those look like decent places to be...on paper.
My further two yen: the bickering in this thread is very disappointing and offputting. Honestly.
Oh, I've given four yen to this thread.
twowheel |
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moviefan1987
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:21 am Post subject: |
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My further two yen: the bickering in this thread is very disappointing and offputting. Honestly. |
I agree. Let's all just be civil, and get along, shall we?
I think the general consensus is that teaching at universities in Japan is a mixed bag. It's also really competitive to get a full time teaching position, and it's really often about who you know and getting a personal reference or introduction. Of course, part time Uni work is easier to come by.
Not surprisingly, this is exactly the way academia is back home in the good old land of the free, USA. Full time ESL positions teaching adults in the US are very hard to come by. And full time tenure track positions with only a MA is like winning the lottery. Even with people with PhDs, the competition is fierce and most people get by living the adjunct life. Academia is a scary and petty place, from what I hear. I know people who do this, and they often have to rely on a spouse or partner to help support them. Gone are the days where a MA or PhD made you a shoo-in. The fact that Japan is the same way just shows that the market is mature and developed here, and that you need real TEFL qualifications to make your bones here. I am a career TEFLer, though, so Japan has been decent to me. I find that if you are very professional about your job here, decent prospects do come your way with active networking. And business English teaching is also not a bad racket either.
If one really wants to teach TEFL at a university, I see a ton of posts in China that offer a decent wage for the amount of work they ask. I suppose one could say that its probably not real teaching there, but from what I have seen in academia in Japan and the US, most of what goes on there doesn't look much like real teaching anyway... |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| twowheel wrote: |
| My further two yen: the bickering in this thread is very disappointing and offputting. Honestly. |
I couldn't agree more.
2.6 million yen course fees
Though it appears to be part-time only, over 2-2.5 years, for people working in TESOL already.
Last edited by Lamarr on Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| moviefan1987 wrote: |
| If one really wants to teach TEFL at a university, I see a ton of posts in China that offer a decent wage for the amount of work they ask. I suppose one could say that its probably not real teaching there, but from what I have seen in academia in Japan and the US, most of what goes on there doesn't look much like real teaching anyway... |
I've "heard" more stories about China. Xianjiaotong Uni (or some similar spelling), Ningbo. The one thing those stories have in common is issues with living there, culture and manners and things like that. Those unis have big English departments with a lot of lecturers. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Having a doctorate from an English speaking country looks good.
If not, it does not look good, most of the time.
I know a teacher who got a Ph.d in engineering and he just works part-time and another teacher with a doctorate has 17 koma and works at four universities.
Being over 50 is part of the problem, as ageism is rampant.
Pay at private schools is not exactly the same so I don't know how many koma equals 4 million yen per year. I think about 14 would be about 4 million.
I think teachers that have over 15 koma really cannot spend enough time on grading or preparation. |
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