Job Discussion Forums

[JZer]

[Cshannon]

I find that Japanese (and also Korean) people, men and women, are quite generous flatterers. I can`t tell you how many times I`ve been told here casually in a conversation that I`m handsome/good-looking. They don`t feel embarassed to say such things to others. This just never happens back in Canada (whether it be the case or no), but people in Japan (and Koreans even more so, I`ve found) seem to have no problem complimenting my looks, and/or telling me how clever (or whatever) I am. They also seem to find everything I say oh so interesting (smiling wide-eyed, sighing, nodding their heads etc.). They make me feel like such a great guy Has this happened to other westerners? I`m not boasting here, just telling you my experience - likely it`s happened to other foreigners too.
The point being, it`s difficult for vanity not to kick in after being told such things. Probably it`s just small talk, but when a group of Japanese tell me I`m good-looking, it becomes, I think, quite tempting to believe it. Naturally I then assume it`s going to be easy to pick up the cute Japanese girl across from me, only to find out she has no intention whatsoever of doing anything with me outside the social realm. I`ve been perplexed like this several times (thinking it`s in the bag, when it most definately is not).
Basically, it seems to me that unlike all the talk I`ve heard, it`s not that easy to get Japanese women (assuming you any standards at all), or at least it`s no easier for me than it was back home. Actually, I haven`t invested all that much effort, but they sure aren`t knocking down the door. I think PaulH was bang on about the language bit. It`s pretty obvious.
As for walking into a place and taking the first cute girl I see to the nearest love hotel, like a rockstar/groupie thing (as some westerners brag about), it just doesn`t seem to work that way. I really don`t find Japanese girls to be all that "easy". I`ve been told stories by fellow westerners about how they were able sleep with Japanese girls simply by walking up and asking for it after 5 minutes of cheap conversation. I find it hard to believe, despite having never had the audacity to try it. Given enough alcohol/money, though, I`m sure it`s not a problem, but that goes for anywhere in the world.
However, I think a lot of western guys who brag about how easy it is to bag any Japanese girl are kidding themselves. I know for myself, I`ve often confused flattery with true sentiment. The reality is different. That`s just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

[PAULH]

[PAULH]

[big dog]

I find that men, women and children of all ages look at me like I am some kind of freak. i am over 6 feet and 250, and feel huge and out of place. I Find any girl will stare at me, but not so easy to shag

[Sadken]

[PAULH]

[JZer]

[JZer]

PAULH, sometimes you are being stereotypical of the stereotypes. Do you need to attack stereotypes before someone even mentions them?

[Sadken]

***************WARNING************************


IRONY HAS BEEN DEPLOYED IN THIS AREA. PLEASE REMAIN CALM.

Would that help, do you reckon?

[Zzonkmiles]

I normally don't post about this subject on this particular forum, but I hope what I say here will be the definitive post on this old chestnut.

Listen, most Japanese women are NOT interested in dating foreigners. You have to remember, this country is 98+% Japanese. So there are a lot of people who are conservative in their thinking. There are a lot of people who think Japanese should stay with Japanese, and there are a lot of people who have no interest in learning/studying English and could care less about America or England or Australia (in other words, YOU).

Having said that, as English teachers in Japan, you'll likely encounter the subset of J-women who are open to dating gaijin. Usually, these women have several gaijin friends or have had several gaijin boyfriends before you. So if she talks about "how special" you are, you probably aren't. I don't mean that to diminish your appeal in this country. I say that because you are easily replaceable. If you don't want to give Yoko or Michiko your time, there's always going to be another gaijin who will.

Nonwhite gaijin will have a harder time finding a J-girlfriend than White gaijin. Although the Japanese tend to lump people into the two broad categories of "Japanese" and "gaijin," there is a hierarchy among the gaijin which usually has Whites at the top, Blacks a distant second, and other Asians at the bottom. There are very few Indians, Arabs, and Hispanics here, so I don't know much about their experience. Some J-women don't care about your race and are pretty open-minded. Some will date a gaijin, but only if he's White. And some, albeit fewer, are only into Black guys. Sometimes it's not easy to tell if the woman likes you for who you are or if she likes you simply because of your skin color or because you speak English.

Having said that, it is very easy to get laid in this country. A lot of times, J-women and gaijin trade sex for free English lessons under the guise of a "relationship" or "private teaching." And others, as was mentioned earlier, simply want the status that comes from having a gaijin boyfriend. They just want to show you off to their friends or be the focus of attention because it can be trendy to have a foreign boyfriend. Still, other J-women just want to live the "gaijin fantasy." The level of superficiality in this country is amazing. They think that dating a Westerner will be akin to dating an exciting rock star who will whisk them away from their life of misery in Japan to their home in paradise (England, Australia, the US, or whatever).

It's a bit harder to find an actual girlfriend who is serious relationship material, but that's probably true anywhere. Anyway, if your Japanese ability is not so good, you'll have a hard time having serious discussions with your girlfriend unless her English is pretty good. But if your J-girlfriend speaks good English, you're probably never going to learn Japanese because you'll be speaking only English at work and you'll be speaking English with your girlfriend (which is to her benefit and not yours).

Many J-women are a bit cautious about dating foreigners because they know they are not in Japan permanently. After one or two years, they will likely return to their home country. So these women might be reluctant to make things serious. And if they do, you're likely looking at marriage. J-women seem to throw the M-bomb around very early in relationships.

Oh, and a J-woman might date you and really seem to be into you, but good luck meeting her parents. If she refuses to let you meet them, it's likely because she knows her parents would never approve of the relationship, or the relationship simply isn't as strong as you thought it was. This is a culture based on respecting elders, group loyalty and not shaming the group. Keep that in mind, as you hear your girlfriend talk about how conservative her family is. And if her parents have already met one of her loser ex-boyfriends from Canada or America or whatever before, that'll only make things more difficult for you.

For better or for worse, Judeo-Christian hangups don't really exist in Japan. Cheating and sex-friends are a lot more common here. Even some of the innocent housewives you teach during the morning are getting their freak on. It's not just the drunk salarymen who "work overtime" every night. So in other words, you might think your girlfriend is into you, but a lot of other guys might be into her too, if you know what I mean. But then again, a lot of gaijin here do the exact same thing, seeing that Japan could be considered as a playground of sorts.

Unfortunately, if you live in the inaka/countryside, your opportunities for dating will be limited. You'll have fewer women in your age bracket, there are fewer places to hang out, you'll be dealing with a more conservative population, and a lot of people will be gossipping about you. There are more open-minded people in the cities, but also a lot more gaijin too, which means you lose a bit of your "specialness." The "gaijin card" doesn't work so well when there are so many other guys in the area who can use it too.

Oh, and believe it or not, it's possible to not get any action at all in Japan. If you're not sociable, if you stay in your apartment all the time, or if you're just an ass, you won't have much success at all. So many gaijin think they are the $h!t when they come to Japan just because they're a gaijin and then they get surprised when they find that the women are not throwing themselves at their feet. Being able to get a J-woman to laugh will go a long way.

As for their looks, there are a lot of very attractive women here with one or more of the following:

1. Very bad teeth (either stained from drinking loads of tea or teeth that are simply growing in random directions)
2. Very bad breath (Japan is the land of halitosis and poor dental hygiene)
3. Smoker's breath (are smokers in the majority in this country?)
4. The body of a 12-year old (interpret this as you wish)

***And lastly, stay away from the EIGO BANDITS (they just want to talk to you in English, even if your Japanese ability is stronger) and the WELCOME WAGONS (the sluts who sleep with all the new teachers). Also, STDs are more common here than people think. The lack of condom usage and the business trips to Thailand are partly responsible for this, I think.

I don't see why this thread (or one of its 400 earlier incarnations) shouldn't be turned into a sticky. It'll easily generate more hits than any of the actual job-related stuff, like writing a resume. But I guess that's not the focus of this site. By the way, people should stop jumping on those who ask about dating here. Most of us are in our 20s and 30s and are without a wife (or husband!) and kids. While I agree that we are coming here to WORK and that we should treat our jobs as professionals, it is unreal to expect that these people won't want to get out and meet new people and do what comes naturally.

[bzakka]

sometimes it is stereotypical to stereotype other peoples' stereotypes. Stereotypically, the stereotypical stereotyping of certain stereotypes can seem a bit stereotypical. I suggest those committed to stereotyping should stereotype in less stereotyical surroundings. But then again, maybe i am being stereotypical.

[MindlessFudge]

[voodoochild]

Sethness.... a brilliant posting .... on the nail !!

[sethness]

Thanks to the folks who enjoyed my post.

zZonkmiles also has a good handle on life in Japan.

One poster said "Some Japanese find yaeba teeth cute, which is why some girls have crooked teeth." Surprisingly, this *is* true. Or, at least it was, a while back. The "crowded mouth" look was supposed to imply an exceedingly small mouth, rather like the idealized women one sees in Japanese paintings. Personally, I think "Hey, girl-- put away that Swiss Army knife. Is there a war on ?" when one of those crowded mouths faces me.

Likewise, small ankles is supposed to be a sign of...errr... diminutive proportions elsewhere, just as Westerners believe that large feet and hands implies that a man's ...er...boneless limb is large.

One poster mentions how Japanese flatter mercilessly, but it's often a castle built on clouds-- nothing REAL behind it. This is true, but it's a cultural thing AND a bilingual thing. In Japan, just like the geisha whose job it is to flatter and pretend to be unavailable while everyone recognizes that she's not truly "on the menu for tonight", general society is set up so flattery and smiles make social events go smoothly...whether that's the real opinion of the individual or not. It's VERY much part of Japanese society, to use smiles and flattery to make the wheels of society move smoothly. Rough individualism and harsh truth are poorly appreciated here.

Let's remember that Japan is the land where saying "no" is rude. Instead, one hears "That would be difficult..." or "let me think about it."

There's also the bilingual thing, as I said earlier. It's simply easier for us and for the Japanese to speak freely and say shockingly direct things, when we're speaking in a foreign language or trying to make ourselves understood in our own language by people who don't speak our language.
Believe me, I've heard some stomach-turning things come out of peoples' mouths when they were trying through brute force to make themselves understood.

There's also the alcohol factor. Just like the 1940s in America, alcohol is the universal excuse for lowering one's inhibitions. Many women won't let you get close or won't let themselves open up, until they have the excuse of alcohol to hide behind, in case things don't work out. It's a get-out-of-jail-free card. Of course, it's the same for men as well. Married men will use their own drunkennes at office parties as an excuse to play the field. Hell, I've even had married men try to feel ME up (I'm a straight man...not prejudiced, but not gay in any way) when they were drunk.

As someone else hinted, anonymity is a really important factor, too. In the city, J-women are hanging out with strangers and with people their own age. In the countryside, they're surrounded by older folk who know the women's names, address, and parents. Nnnnyargggh ! Basically, in the countryside, it's hard to "get any".

Mmm...can't think of anythign else to add, for the moment. Keep up the interesting conversation, dudes and dudettes.