Job Discussion Forums

[veiledsentiments]

No more culling... it just gets funner and funner, don't it?

VS

[noonlite]

Hello all:

I have recently been interviewed by HCT at TESOL 2005 and would like to share my experience with you all about that.

At this interview there were two interviewers who were representing different colleges. Both of these individuals asked a variety of questions that were typical of most other Gulf Universities I interviewed with (UAEU, U of Quatar, KFUPM...).

When asked about something I had learned over the years through my teaching experience, and to elaborate on some of the things I am currently writing about, however, I had an interesting turn of events unfold in the interview process because of my answers.

What happened is that it became clear that both of my interviewers had opposing perspectives on certain philosophical issues and as my answers unfolded I realized that I suddenly had one person who was trying to poke holes in what I was saying in a way that was not indicative of a desire to communicate with and learn and grow from the different perspectives of others, but in a combative way. This interviewer had already come to a decision and was not interested in hearing what I had to say, only in disproving it, regardless of its value or possible basis in truth. The other interviewer, on the other hand, was clearly excited by my words and was rapidly making notes in his notebook and asking questions that were clearly assistive. At one point, the antagonist interviewer tried to trap me and failed and actually ended up looking quite foolish. This delighted the other interviewer. This was all quite surreal for me.

I tried my best to be neutral with further questions from the antogonist after that person stuck a foot in it and the rest of the interview was much less rocky. When asked about how they make their hiring decisions, I was told that each college makes its own decisions and that they (the interviewers) don't decide, but only make recommendations.

After speaking with these two I was sent to a third person (a strikingly beautiful young lady who was very pleasant) who asked if I had any more questions, and gave me a business card.

After about a month I got an e-mail saying I had been recommended for a position and it asked me to fill out their on-line application form. At this point I had already taken many things into consideration (including my interview) and accepted a position elsewhere, so I sent an e-mail thanking them for their interest in me blah blah blah.

A few day later I got another e-mail. This one said that Dubai Men's College would like to offer me a position. Did they not get my e-mail?

About a week later Federal Express arrives at my door with a contract of service that I am keeping as a souvenir as a high salary is not as important to me as a non-combative work environment.

Now when I reflect on this hiring process, two things come to my mind. The first one is the feeling that I am soldier being recruited for battle. I got the sense that HCT had selected these two interviewers precisely because they both represented different factions within the colleges and that they were trying to create some kind of balance between them. I also got the feeling that the antogonists side was stronger and the other was the underdog and that this person was hoping I might help further the underdog agenda.

The second is the ESL game called "gossip" by some, "telephone" by others, and the "dengon game" in Japan. Basically it consists of the teacher whispering a sentence into the ear of one student, who then whispers it into the ear of the next, on down the line. The idea is to see if our listening and speaking skills are good enough for the last student to get the message to be able to repeat back the original message of the teacher correctly. It is almost always a very different message. How can the people at one college wisely choose an employee for the unique circumstances that they are likely to face based on the second hand reports of others, and how accurate is the information that they do get actually going to be?

[veiledsentiments]

[turtlepi1]

Can we say "comfortable" salary instead?

Unless you are holding a PhD and 10 or so years experience I would hardly say the salary is even bordering on "big". (and then I guess relatively speaking for someone with those qualifications the salary STILL wouldn't be considered big)

On the flipside compared to those poor fellas standing outside selling newspapers on the street corners in this heat I guess we could consider our salary a king's ransom.

[veiledsentiments]

Or compared to the average ESL teacher in the US, who has to commute between 2 or 3 or 4 employers to try to get enough hours to pay the rent in their shabby flat, repair their 6 year old car, and buy the weeks food - and just pray that they don't get ill because they get no sick pay and have no health insurance... hating the fact that the Christmas holidays and the month of August with no classes mean no income.

Even that rare person with a contract only gets the joy of pay every month and health insurance. They will still only be able to afford the shabby flat and junker car.

Not to mention that HCT pays at the top of the scale for salaries in the Gulf. Personally I would consider it a big salary and was thrilled to get it and be able to save more every month than I could in a full year of employment in the US.

As I recall... you're not an ESL/EFL teacher are you turtle? All is relative...

VS

[turtlepi1]

fair enough...

OK I have wrote this 5 times now and it comes across as negative each time. It isn't suppose to be a "dig". Further proof I am not an ESL teacher.

People from the West end up going to third world/developing countries and get sucked into the expat life selling their "whiteness". Then they go back to their own country and find that the thing that made them a prize abroad makes them unemployed in their own country.

I don't question people's motives for moving home. I completely understand. But the problem is being an ESL teacher in a country that is native English always seemed like a tough road and to be expected. (not that there aren't good ESL gigs in the West, but supply/demand...)

I teach IT. We are even worse off than ESL teachers. Our "whiteness" isn't a commodity. There are (people from the) sub-continent that really CAN do our job as good as us. (at least from a technology standpoint)

And as for top of scale...are we really? Man, factor in the perks, (no tax, free housing, airline tickets) it is a SUPER gig...but on salary alone I am making less than I made in Canada. PLUS if the OP is to be believed he thought it was worth it to turn it down. (Depending on the campus I think he was crazy, but you can't fault someone with going with their gut feeling.)

For me, I would say they are an employer of choice, people from other campuses may or may not concur. "Manage" your supervisor and you are in paradise.

[veiledsentiments]

Well turtle, we will try hard not to hold it against you that you are not an ESL/EFL teachers. (... as in, some of my best friends are not...)

Two thoughts came to me as I read your message. One was that although you IT people have gone through a downturn in your field, you do have a skill that 'could' get you another job - in an office or company. ESL teachers' usual option is flipping burgers or clerking in the 7-11.

I think the most offensive thing to me about the abuse of ESL teachers in the US (and also all English speaking countries) is that there are all these universities - big and small - plus community colleges who have an ESL department. This department is probably one of their main money spinners pulling in revenue that weigh outweighs other sources per student.

But, we are expendible slaves... teach triple the hours for a fraction of the pay and no benes...

For me, going into this field was a second career. When I was back in the states between gigs or whatever, I went back to my first career. If I had to come out of retirement, I would do the same.

Now... what was the topic of this thread again?

VS

[noonlite]

I have to agree with VS. Having taught ESL in the states for over eight years in different places including Hawaii, Vermont, Massachusettes, Connecticut, and Texas, one does come off feeling like a slave. It appears, furthermore, that things are worsening. The only place for security and benefits is in public schools. That didn't work for me for many reasons. The biggest being that I'm not capable forcing poeple to do things they don't want to do and still feel good about myself. If you don't want to do it, then I don't want you to do it either. What makes me a good teacher is my ability to tune into how my students feel, not tune it out and ignore it. But that's another thread!

In short, the salary offered at HCT is incredibly tempting to me and would be something that would radically change my financial landscape. If I were going to accept a UAE position, though, I think I'd choose the offer from UAEU over HCT. I'm turning both down despite the money for a number of reasons. I learned a long time ago that all that glitters is not gold. Somehow there seems to be a forced modernity in UAE (I haven't lived there and am just going by the impression I get reading threads here, researching other places, etc.) When I see the promotional video, it glitters and shines, but seems hollow somehow. Something is missing. There also seem to be a lot of large egos among the ESL people, which I prefer to avoid if given an option. It's simply my perception and I'm sure there are plenty of people who would disagree. Different flows for different Joe's. I lived two years in Japan and discovered that I'm really not interested in night life and technology so much as nature and simplicity. I'll be happy just to have a job that does not require going from place to place, has normal hours, gives me insurance benefits, and a nice vacation while paying all of my bills and allowing me to save some money without living like a monk. The job I've accepted does that. More than anything, though, I'm just tuning into my feelings and letting them guide me to the place that is best for me, which is what I would recommend as a good bet for anyone else.

[noonlite]

I have to agree with VS. Having taught ESL in the states for over eight years in different places including Hawaii, Vermont, Massachusettes, Connecticut, and Texas, one does come off feeling like a slave. It appears, furthermore, that things are worsening. The only place for security and benefits is in public schools. That didn't work for me for many reasons. The biggest being that I'm not capable of forcing poeple to do things they don't want to do and still feel good about myself. If you don't want to do it, then I don't want you to do it either. What makes me a good teacher is my ability to tune into how my students feel, not tune it out and ignore it. But that's another thread!

In short, the salary offered at HCT is incredibly tempting to me and would be something that would radically change my financial landscape. I turned it down despite the money for a number of reasons. All that glitters is not gold. Somehow there seems to be a forced modernity in UAE (I haven't lived there and am just going by the impression I get reading threads here, researching other places, etc.) When I see the promotional video, it glitters and shines, but seems hollow somehow. Something is missing. There also seem to be a lot of large egos among the ESL people, which I prefer to avoid if given an option. It's simply my perception and I'm sure there are plenty of people who would disagree. Different flows for different Joe's. I lived two years in Japan and discovered that I'm really not interested in night life and technology so much as nature and simplicity. I'll be happy to have a job that gives me an authentic taste of life in the Middle East, does not require going from place to place, has normal hours, gives me insurance benefits, and a nice vacation while paying all of my bills and allowing me to save some money without living like a monk. The job I've accepted does that. More than anything, though, I'm just tuning into my feelings and letting them guide me to the place that is best for me, which is what I would recommend as a good bet for anyone else.

[well-travelled]

Interesting response, noonlite (even if it does appear twice!) If you don't mind me asking, where is the job you finally accepted over the rest?

well-travelled

[veiledsentiments]

BTW noonlite, there is a little button - X - up in the corner and you can delete the duplicate post...

VS

[dmb]

maybe noonlite's post was so good s/he had to write it twice just like the the old Sanatra song. (Sorry, this adds nothing to the topic, but it is 3am and I can't sleep)

[noonlite]

I decided to go to Sultan Qaboos University in Oman. The feedback from people who have lived and taught there, as well as information that can be found about it from several places on the internet indicated that Oman was a place with authenticity, natural beauty, and unique character, and that SQU was one of the best, if not the best, place in the country to work. The one thing that I heard so many times over and over is about friendly people and nice students. Friendly people and nice students. Friendly people and nice students. Even the Lonely Planet travel guide describes it as something like a hidden jewel of the Middle East. The reputation of the new Sultan among his people, and the things that he has done to improve his country in a relatively short period of time are also appealing.

The sincerity of the two people who interviewed me from SQU -one of which is the Director of the program- was also a big plus. The Language program brochure from SQU was also very impressive to me, especially as regards the movement of its current research projects underway and the efforts being made to align the courses to the needs of students in various colleges. In addition, though I'm sure to have plenty of unmotivated students, it seems that the ones who do get into this university are among the top 5 percent of students in the country. If they are not able to reach a certain level of competency within the first semester, furthermore, they may not remain in the program, but must go elsewhere. As a result, I have heard that many students are proud to have been accepted into the program. Now even if those top 5 percent have really low skills, if they are happy to be there, I can take them far and my job satisfaction is likely to be much higher. Oman has some of the lowest salaries in the Gulf Region, but I did some math on it and when I calculate in the factors of the salary being tax free, the two month vacation, the housing that is provided, and everything else, a comparable salary in the US would have to be over $50,000.

[lionbrian]

Hi,

You have just made the best choice in your life, and after reading your posts, the only thing I can tell you to encourage you, is GO FOR IT! GO FOR IT WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING BACK!

I am pretty sure that you will succeed and the main reason is because you are going with your feelings and not with the others'.

Wish you all the best!

P.S: SQU was the first university in the Gulf which offered me the job twice! Unfortunately, my prime concern at that time was simply MONEY: PHD going on and 2 kids!

Take care!

[Gordon]

Noonlite,
I have heard the same as you regarding SQU. 　Ｉ　ｇｕｅss it depends on your financial situation and family. It may be difficult to support a family on SQU`s salary especially in regards to their education.
Good to hear someone going with their heart instead of their wallet. I hope I can do the same when I make my move.