Job Discussion Forums

[moonraven]

Sounds like a very bad fit, then.

[ls650]

[thelmadatter]

I tried a song today in class. Its not something I would normally do. But its almost the end of the semester (3 more days woohoo!) and the "kids" (ok 17-22 yr olds) want to do ANYTHING but grammar lessons.

So I printed the lyrics of "Wide Open Spaces" by the Dixie Chicks. I didn't have time to do a cloze exercise or anything like that, so I had them translate the lyrics into Spanish (short enough and not very metaphorical). We put the translations on the board (each group put up one refrain). We talked a little about the cultural significance of the song too (about a "child" leaving home to start her own life and how independence from parents is so important in US culture). We talked about the few bits of metaphorical language there are in the song and compared translations a little.

It seemed to over well, but I don't think I would do this regularly - maybe occasionally to break the monotony of regular lessons.

I also like "Let 'er Rip" by the Dixie Chicks but have absolutely NO CLUE how one would translate that into Spanish!!!

Please don't tell anyone in NJ I used country music

[moonraven]

Thelma: Are you teaching a class in Translation?

If not, you might be shooting yourself in the foot by encouraging that much use of Spanish in the classroom.

Classes built around songs are Listening classes, and they require preparation to be optimally effective.

[Glenski]

[mandu]

rolling stones
sympathy for the devil

[thelmadatter]

What I did with "Wide Open Spaces" was not meant to be principally a listening exercise. I really doubt the usefulness of songs for that purpose. I can think of quite a number of songs in English which I cant understand the words (thinking of "Blinded by the Light by Bruce Springsteen in particular). There are websites devoted to misintepretations of song lyrics with funny consequences.

The idea was to get the students to read/look at something in English, REALLY paying attention to the meaning. It seems to me in my classes, too often kids are doing rote exercises just trying to guess the answers (multiple choice of course) without really understanding what they are reading. Oh and a little culture. I like the song because it shows how in the US we value kids leaving the nest to be independent - something not valued here in Mexico. ( I had a discussion once with a Mexican teacher who was insisting the Americans did not love their children because we "could not wait to kick them out of the house." I had to explain that at 16, parents are usually tying the kids down (not literally) to keep them from leaving too soon!) The goal was to demonstrate a difference, without judgement.

I know "translation" is a bugaboo word ... and "Grammar Translation Method is of the devil." Or shall we say that its not in fashion, although the director of my masters program did remark once that some researchers are taking another look at it. (Seems these things go in cycles in Applied Linguistics - kinda like the way those clunky (fugly) 70's shoes came back in fashion 5-10 yrs ago ) The fact of the matter is that I don't see why an occasional translation exercise can't be helpful for advanced students when you have a uniform L1 class and the teacher knows the L1. We did a comparison of the translation and talked about why there could be discrepancies (in English, of course).

Basically, my desire was to experiment, and see if we could do something useful. I remember doing a translation exercise once in one of my advanced Spanish classes and I enjoyed it (something more intelligent than mind-numbing grammar!) although unfortunately, the discussion afterwards was in L1 (English)

[moonraven]

Songs are probably more useful than any other listening material--because the emotional content is generally much more compelling for students than listeing to, for example, a news broadcast.

I have also used songs when teaching in Spanish to groups where Spanish is the L1, as listening skills are usually at the bottom of the skill pile all over Latin America except fot that 10% of the student population comprised of auditive learners. And there's a reason for that: the traditional teaching "method" here is to enter the classroom and natter on for the duration of the class and then leave. Students do poorly on exams because they have learned the basic survival skill of tuning their teachers OUT. Listening, however, is a vital skill--and in order to revive it from the ashes I have used a fair number of Mexican rock songs--Man� songs--especially "Fe" (which is very upbeat, in both senses of the word), which students can really belt out when they have all the words down.

[Glenski]

[moonraven]

I am not sure that you have to agree, Glenski. You have pooh-poohed all of my classroom methodology, but do not seem to be a happy camper in this field. I, on the other hand, love my work--and am always happy.

[Justin Trullinger]

My experience in Latin America is that students love creative use of songs- they're willing to sing, too!

I wouldn't want to overuse them, though. I had a colleague who seemed to do songs all the time, at the expense of other listening materials. It was popular with students, but I didn't see positive results in terms of listening skills. The reason for this, it seems to me, is that songs, following artistic rythms and melodies, often don't follow the natural patterns of speech. (Unusual word stress, unusual stretching of certain vowel sounds, etc.) I find songs useful and motivational, but other listening activities are also essential, as they can be much closer to real speech, with its weak forms, elisions, and all.

Justin

[moonraven]

In all aspects of teaching and learning, one usually receives what one expects.

If you expect students to learn--and if they expect to learn--they will, regardless of methodology.

If you expect your methodology to produce poor results, that will be communicated to the students, and in most cases they will have little incentive to prove you wrong.

[Zero Hero]

[moonraven]

Another compelling comment--wonder when he'll figure out the difference between watching and listening.

[Glenski]

moonraven,
I hate to contradict you again, but I am quite happy in my field, thank you.


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