Job Discussion Forums

[Redfivestandingby]

Uuuhhhh... shouldn't this be in the "Off-Topic"?

Anyway, I might also add that most of us have felt as the OP. Yeah, he may not be saying anything new but he's venting and getting it out of his system. Nothing wrong with that. It's too bad he left the country on a down note. I was lucky to leave(the second time) on a high note.

Relax people. China can be quite crappy for Westerners. But I'm damned to hell confused as to why other Westerners need to be so harsh with each other. We all understand where the OP is coming from. If not then you're living in the lap of luxury in a suite at the Holiday Inn in Shanghai. Need a roommate?

[Volodiya]

Redfivestandingby, you must be feeling particularly benevolent, today.

Look at the title the OP chose for his thread, "Working and living in China. If you can, AVOID IT!"

The implication was that those who could not avoid it would come here or- worse- stay here.

Intended or not, it suggested that those with any sense would avoid coming here- or get out, as the case may be.

Those of us who like China, and are free to choose were we work- had something to say, in response. (It was the risk the OP took when he posted here.)

None of us can control what may be said in reply- well, moderators, excepted- when we post. If the OP just needed to unburden himself, and get some consolation, he could have picked his "audience" a little more carefully.

Some of us actually like living abroad, like living in China, like teaching, and enjoy our work and our students- most of the time! We stand ready to defend our life choices, when the situation arises.

[cj750]

I would say that if you read the OPs post and still want to come..you may have a chance in China..those who make it..short noses and all..reconize the truth about the mainland and like it in spite of itself and why would anyone get upset about their choice to come to china unless they were defensive about said choice.(which is common on this board)....comeon..this guy expressed an opinion and didnt attack anyone in his post..if you really think that the post is bunk..then take it point for point and lock horns on its merits..dont attack the messenger ..at least he told you what he thought...maybe a constructive retort would be to tell him what you found that was an alternative to his assertions..his experiences have been echoed by many who came here and found that the mainland was a plastic bag filled wasterland..and it is true that certified teachers are often frustrated with the admin process that seems to favor flash over substance..true if your teaching ESL and you would have a hard time finding a job in the west..then some of these post may seem like a direct attack..but really it is just the cry of frustration that many have felt and spoke..

[Redfivestandingby]

[Super Mario]

I was interested in Roger's assertion that men don't urinate publicly in The People's etc.
During my 3 years in SW Shanghai, I went on a daily walk to the market which took me through a restaurant district.
Every time, there was at least one guy taking a leak in the street.
So, was I hallucinating, or is it possible that R...............No! Unthinkable.

[KES]

Perhaps Roger can enlighten us as to exactly what so many of us see, a not uncommon sight, when we see these guys with their trousers unzipped and a stream of liquid pouring out.

What pray tell are they doing? Please inform us what we have seen.

Perhaps CMM will tell us it's a Jungian episode of mass hysteria and or illusion. But Roger knows exactly what it is not, hence, perhaps he can shed light on what it is.

Gush forth the yellow wisdom oh wise one.

[Don McChesney]

Look for the yellow snow in winter. Fairly conclusive proof, even for the sceptics amongst us.

[Roger]

[cj750]

Sound like a testimonial to me Rog

[Chris_Crossley]

[tw]

[herman]

legaleagle:

[Redfivestandingby]

[herman]

My point is merely to put things in perspective and, as I said before, not place blame on anyone in particular.

As to Hong Kong, many of China's best artisans, businessmen, professionals of all sorts, and many of the educated fled from coastal China (particularly southeastern China) to Hong Kong during the Civil War -- that was a great contributing factor to the success of Hong Kong, coupled with the fact that the British used it as a trading post between China and the West. No doubt, British rule provided the technology and management for Hong Kong's development, but to imply that -- as your statement may seem to suggest -- it was solely because of some sort of superiority innate in the British blood and in their management of "development" or "civilization" is perhaps too simplistic. Yes, Hong Kong probably wouldn't be any different from the mainland today if it had not been ceded to the British -- by way of a forced treaty, by way of gaining profits by trading and drugging the citizens of Canton with opium. ...at least Hong Kong has developed now and is a post of democracy in China. Fortunately, Hong Kong as a colony moved forward with Great Britain. Let's not forget these imperialistic countries harbored much injustice within their own countries during that time.

Regarding the Boxer Rebellion, do you know why the Chinese were so antagonistic against foreigners? Do you think that during that imperialistic era countries such as Great Britain, Germany, Japan, etc. had noble causes as they occupied various parts of the world by force and used them for economic gains? Do you seriously think these countries did not invade China?

I'm not justifying or espousing hatred and blame for actions of past generations. I think it prudent not to judge a people too quickly, and not to make simplified statements such as that China's people are still so backward due to their own and sole doing. Rather than complain how Chinese people are so and so, I lament more how China has gone through what it has gone through to become the way it is today. But one cannot forget that there are both good and bad things wherever you go; the ones who see the good rather than focus on the bad seem to have a much better time.

I am not in China, but if you are and you are teaching in any capacity whatsoever, I hope you are able and willing to contribute, however little, to the betterment of these people. You are, after all, a cultural ambassador, unless you are treated like a doormat like the original poster described in his experience. I find teaching extremely exhausting, precisely because I commit to being a positive example as much as possible when I interact with my students, and that takes more than just lesson planning and knowing my English well. Perhaps I'm just being idealistic -- but that's what some of the best teachers I've had are like.

[herman]