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The Linguo-Racial Complex
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ls650

Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:27 pm Post subject:

GabeKessel wrote:

After I spoke well in their language?

I've noticed that many people, including language teachers who should know better, think they speak second languages better than they actually do.

Why do you think that they understood you? Not to point too fine a point on it, but maybe, just maybe, you don't speak the language in question quite as well as you think you do.

Cdaniels

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 663
Location: Dunwich, Massachusetts

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:01 am Post subject: Re: broken English

thelmadatter wrote:

Cdaniels - unfortunately with your example, there is no way to know if the librarians' reaction to the student's English was due to pronunciation or the fact that it was "broken" (non-fluent and/or poor grammar)

Neither. Apparently I wasn't clear. It wasn't the "quality" of her English at all, but the "Spanishness" of the accent. The librarians associated Hispanics with being poor, and poorly educated. This Hispanic woman was an upper-class Peruvian who had an excellent private education. My point is that what might have been interpreted as racism (or Linguo-Racialism?) was really about a perception of class. It would be surprising to hear a Japanese person with a Co-kney accent specifically because that accent is associated with working classes, and why would a Japanese person, with means to move to England learn English from there? Some Native English speakers try to get rid of their regional accents in order to sound "better educated," or get certain opportunities (as actors or newscasters, etc.) Response and reaction has a lot to do with social standing as well as comprehension. The same is true both within and across different languages.

GabeKessel

Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 150

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject:

Quote:

It seems to happen regardless of whether the language is good or bad. They often react to your other-race face, not your accent. Sure, sometimes when one is not fluent, and we are getting involved in a conversation and cannot explain things well, polite people would ask you to switch to your native tongue-, or tell you " You can speak in English!". I am talking about situations where the question we ask strangers consists of two words "Where is...?" or "Can I smoke?"- and the answer is " It's overthere" and "Yes, you can smoke"- in English. Why? And when you have lived in the country for quite a long time and speak the language well enough for your local friends to understand you well, strangers still seem to treat you like what I had described earlier.

If my language is not good enough, how come people who are friends, can understand us well?

GabeKessel

Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 150

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject:

Quote:

If you're talking about people treating you differently and unfairly because of your race, then you are talking about racism aren't you?
I'm sorry, but either the "majority of people" (your phrase) in the non-English-speaking world are ill-mannered and ignorant, or you're the one with the problem. I know which seems more likely to me. It's a shame because having these kind of prejudices and expectations of people is only likely to make these kind of incidents more frequent for you.

I am talking about the phenomenon of LRC- Linguo-Racial Complex and trying to determine its causes, as well as ,generally, put some kind of finger on it.

Which one of the above two do I fall into?

Quote:

English-speaking world are ill-mannered and ignorant,

It is not as simple as all that. The question is :"Why do they insist on speaking English when they are in their own country, and I am the one who is the foreigner, and who has to adjust to them?"

Why don't Americans do that when foreigners come to their country, for one? Why do people in Argentina not do that?

Is it an unreasonable expectation that in Japan people speak Japanese and that I should also speak Japanese when I am in Japan? Or that when I am in Arabia, I should speak Arabic to the people? I do not think it is unreasonable. It would be unreasonable to have the expectation that people there should speak English to me, IMHO.

And it is not racism in the Simon LeGree way. No one is whipping me or denying me a job. I am not organizing a million non-native speakers of Arabic march on Riyadh. It is a Linguo-Racial Complex, something very curious and worth of research. And it cannot fall under the modern , very simplistic Ango-American definition of racism.

Am I the one with the problem? I guess so. But again, it is not so simple. I went to Country A, spent untold hours learning the language, try and speak it and answers in English come my way. Why? This is why I have posted that. Answers in English come my way even after I speak the language very well.

Why do people in SE Asia talk English to people who do not speak English well such as Germans and Russians who have learned the language there very well?

Are the majority ignorant there? In that particular area, they are, I think.

Is it worth one's while learning a foreign language at all when LRC is so common now?

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