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vikdk · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 1676

maybe my major gripe at the big chains should be this-

why do they sink the level of service to such a low level when they operate here in China - for example where do EF's least qualified employees work - isn't that in china - dont you have to be a qualified teacher to work in their outlets in other parts of the world.

No I'm one of those ol' sceptics that immediatly think that a chain like EF should be using its vast resources to raise standards here - not just sinking to the level of the others in a mad money grabbing frenzy caused by the emergence of this market. But then again this is just a personal assumption - and I certainly can't see a equivalent home grown product that I would ever send any of my children to - regardless of how frantic I was for them to learn English.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

I am reposting my earlier question as I believe that it is a valid question in this discussion but it has so far gone unanswered.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Louras · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 288

Please refrain from giving Clarkie and ahole any more woodies. I've been away 2 weeks and it's all the same grovel. Please STOP!!! I vote for new people to abuse!!! Calling the same boring old farts boring is soooo boring

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Quoting oneself is funny, but it does make kinda sense here.

Louras · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 288

Loggerheads!!!!!!!!!!! Let's get it on!!!!!!!!!

draigoch · Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 6

A few observations on the whole EF thing :

I'm not going to slag off all EF Schools, because I certainly have not worked at them all by any stretch of the imagination. My count is two. From my understanding there are some which are very good.

However, we all know there are bad ones. The one I last worked at, EF Yiwu, is appalling. I seriously urge anyone thinking of going there to reconsider fast. The local franchise management are the worst management team I have ever had the misfortune to work for. Incompetent and dishonest, both the owner and the Centre Manager.

I also worked at EF Shenyang, which is generally very good. The Centre Manager has her own particular idiocies (generally on the academic side and usually concerned with giving parents of students 'face'), but, on the general treatment of teachers and looking after their well-being that school is pretty good. Something which can never be said of EF Yiwu.

The problem as I see it with EF in China is the franchise system. They frequently compare themselves to McDonald's (why anyone would want to compare themselves with the most hated burger chain in the world is beyond me, but there you go). However, to McDonald's credit, in China, until very recently, they ran all the branches centrally, not as franchises, to ensure and build a quality standard. Now that this standard is established they have started franchising. This is what EF should have done. By not doing that, EFBC is left with schools of varying quality.

It might help, and I know Gregor will disagree with me on this, if EFBC was prepared to withdraw some of the franchises from the worst schools. Gregor will argue, as he has done personally with me, that the owners would just re-open under a new name and carry on as before. He may be right about that. However, I would argue that if it happened there would be enough loss of face for the owner, and threat of loss of face for other EF franchises which are abusing the name that they would start falling into some kind of line.

BTW - Just to say that Gregor is right in that he certainly is not a "Company man" when it comes to EF. I know him pretty well, we have our disagreements on certain ideas, but he's never been a greasy pole climber in my eyes. Just a good bloke.

And just to say again - EF Yiwu, STAY AWAY. Unless you fancy living in a flat which is colder than the outside in winter (oh, and is slap-bang in the middle of a red-light district), having a Centre Manager who will lie and lie and lie again and then blame you for his own incompetence, an owner who will only open his wallet for himself and his pals and be forced to teach various off-site courses which break EFBC's own rules. That's just a little of what I and my colleagues were forced to endure there.

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Gee a revived thread on franchises in China that’s gotten into EF cr*p again.
A good post above I must say.
There are some great EF centers and there are some disastrous ones in China.
I’ve worked at a fantastic one once in 2002. I started “so happy” there, but 6 months later the same year it turned “so quickly around”. In a flash of a light the school lost its students, teachers, Director of Studies, Center Manager (fired), its building (had to move to school) as well as its reputation. I got paid less than my contract said, so I left for another farce EF center. By the way, that school has not recovered since and neither has the one I followed up with. Blah, blah, blah…. What I am saying is that even a great EF center can turn easily into a “hell” so quickly in front of your eyes. Why? Because all its franchisees (some insufficiently educated) are under little or no control from the EF English First Head Office. Any EF Head Office around the world has little or no influence on EF centers in China and take my word for it.

So, do you wish to gamble? Fine! Then, join an EF center in China.

Peace to us all
And
Cheers and beers

________________________________________________________
Why some participate in unfamiliar to them topics or discussions?

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

vikdk · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 1676

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Hey Clarkie. It’s been a while hasn’t it? And you still get into this EF stuff, don’cha?
I see that you’ve been quite attentive above and read my post really carefully. We all have our ambitions and mine have presented me with opportunities at EF. Both EF centers above mentioned in my post lured me into “deals”, which I now call “deals with the devil”. My choices were “no way or highway” and I chose the second one. A “pattern” there Clarkie? I don’t think so. But it’s a nice try, I must say.

Speaking of that EF “pattern”, Thailand’s one mess, Indonesia where the Indonesian business groups buy EF franchise licenses then dictate their demands to the EF Head Office is another one, and then there is China. What’s alarming is that the actual EF product made by some smart and hardworking individuals brought to those EF centers is often “bloody” tainted in actual classrooms then. And those same smart and hardworking individuals do not seem to care as much as long as they get paid. With regards to those “academics” in the EF classrooms, they often just “come and go” whether it is in Thailand, Indonesia or China. What bothers me and as Vikdk has pointed out above is that many get lured to the EF franchise based on false expectations of an International educational institution with hopes that are often faded away due to the greedy, unethical, self-centered and dishonest franchisees.

Peace to all of us guys
And
Cheers and beers