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lupin71
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
The three worst politicians in Canadian History.
1. Brian Mulroney - g.s.t., free trade -- any doubters read On The Take by Stevie Cameron. The secret Mulroney tapes offer some interesting insight into the man as well.
2. Jean Chretien -- lied to Canadians about getting rid of the g.s.t., most of the liberal scandals happened under his watch, couldn�t lead himself out of a paper bag on a rainy day, mean spirited and lead out of spite.
3. Glen Clark (ex-B.C. Premier) because he's an idiot.
***************
You missed one:
Grant Devine --- Mulrooney's little hatchet man back in Scratcherbush.
Ran the province broke, sold off everything of value, gave mountains of cash to his friends and left the province with such a debt it will take 60 years to pay it off. Then as he was turfed out of office, he had the audacity to say "we made a difference".  |
Wow! An honest politician. They did make a difference. It just wasn't a positive one.  |
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Lister100
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Nagoyaguy wrote: |
Hey Guy;
As for Quebec, the whole thing is a sham. It became obvious when "separatists" suddenly morphed into "sovereignists". Christ, do you want your own country or not? If you do, then get off your collective asses and MAKE one. The last 10 plus years have seen an explosion of small nations. Places from Slovenia to Slovakia to Lithuania are all making a go of it. WHy not Quebec? They are too used to suckling away at the teat of Big Momma Ottawa to wean themselves. All that is left is the THREAT of separation.
L8R |
Talk about a province that votes for one party. Check out Alberta and see if you can find any non-conservative votes? I think a lot of conservative types just like buying into the macho-image...dump on the poor, power to the rich, screw the French.
You'll pay more once this country is the mess you would have it be.
Yes I'm from Quebec but I identify myself as a Canadian first. Its very insulting to have people from the otherside of the country say that they want me, my family, my people out of the country. For the record I paid most of my taxes in Ontario as that is where I grew up, my father and grand father served in the military and if I had to I'd do the same. Quebec has always been a major part of my life and cutting it out of the country would leave many people lost in the middle.
Quebec plays political games, so does every province and people. I'm against transfer payments, but they're not the only province that has ever gotten them and if Quebec became the richest province, I wonder how many people would let them keep it all for themselves. But if you really think this country is better off without a massive chunck of it you're in for a rude awakening. You might also want to see where Ontario gets much of its electricity from. Oil is not the only crisis, energy as a whole is.
The way Quebec seperating makes sense is if you want to join the USA.
Last edited by Lister100 on Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chirp
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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OK everybody... let's call a truce and agree to disagree. No personal attacks.
For my part, if Quebec were no longer a part of Canada, I would feel as if I had lost a member of my family. All regions of our beautiful country are special and unique. We should consider ourselves lucky to share such glorious landscapes, diverse ideas and cultures. |
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Cshannon
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| As for Quebec, the whole thing is a sham. It became obvious when "separatists" suddenly morphed into "sovereignists". Christ, do you want your own country or not? If you do, then get off your collective asses and MAKE one. The last 10 plus years have seen an explosion of small nations. Places from Slovenia to Slovakia to Lithuania are all making a go of it. WHy not Quebec? They are too used to suckling away at the teat of Big Momma Ottawa to wean themselves. All that is left is the THREAT of separation |
Lister100: I wouldn't even bother arguing with hicks anymore. Such bigots are unlikely to be convinced no matter what. The only foreseeable outcome I can get out of bashing heads with these types is my own cynicism, so what's the point?
I will say that in my opinion such mulish attitudes show the number one shortcoming of democracy everywhere, for the simple reason that the people who subscribe to them are vast in numbers and know very little. I venture to guess they don't really want a prime minister or president as such at the end of the day, rather a king or an emperor to lead them on in a nationalistic stupor to everyone's detriment. They never learn; it's just too bad they'll get to keep dragging the rest of us own with them... |
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Lister100
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry guys I edited the message to remove personalized comments as possible. This debate makes me sick and provokes an over-sentimental response.
I just can't see how there can still be so many intolerant people, especially when it concerns the people that make up the country.
It gets very depressing. |
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Nagoyaguy
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: Aichi, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Lister, I have no problem with people from Quebec who are loyal Canadians. Even Separatists who have the balls to be honest are not that bad. The soft ones are the worst. Mealy mouthed, trying to stay on the take for as long as possible. You REALLY think con artists like Duceppe are going to separate cleanly from Canada? At the moment, they have no reason to. They are comfortable riding the gravy train all the way to Ottawa.
As for every province playing games, that is true. However, only one province is threatening to break up the country, and has actually voted on the matter TWICE. That makes it different.
I am the same as you in many ways. I WAS in the military, as is my brother today. Met a lot of great Canadians from Quebec in my time in the service, too. It was depressing. Quebec has a lot of potential that is being squandered by the government there.
Cshannon, if you can't stand to hear a little truth and a little passion, then I feel sorry for you. You can hide your head, call people like me names like "bigot" or "hick" or "mulish" if you want. It just shows more about you than about me.
If you want to convince me, tell me what is so terrible about a future without Quebec? The rest of the country will save billions of dollars in everything from transfer payments to the cost of official bilingualism. Personally, I would rather Quebec stay a part of Canada. BUT as a province equal to the others. Not above them. The current state of affairs has to change one way or another. OR are you satisfied with the current arrangements?
If you want to talk about intolerance, talk to a sovereignist. Not to me. |
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seanmcginty
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Nagoyaguy wrote: |
Lister, I have no problem with people from Quebec who are loyal Canadians. Even Separatists who have the balls to be honest are not that bad. The soft ones are the worst. Mealy mouthed, trying to stay on the take for as long as possible. You REALLY think con artists like Duceppe are going to separate cleanly from Canada? At the moment, they have no reason to. They are comfortable riding the gravy train all the way to Ottawa.
As for every province playing games, that is true. However, only one province is threatening to break up the country, and has actually voted on the matter TWICE. That makes it different.
I am the same as you in many ways. I WAS in the military, as is my brother today. Met a lot of great Canadians from Quebec in my time in the service, too. It was depressing. Quebec has a lot of potential that is being squandered by the government there.
Cshannon, if you can't stand to hear a little truth and a little passion, then I feel sorry for you. You can hide your head, call people like me names like "bigot" or "hick" or "mulish" if you want. It just shows more about you than about me.
If you want to convince me, tell me what is so terrible about a future without Quebec? The rest of the country will save billions of dollars in everything from transfer payments to the cost of official bilingualism. Personally, I would rather Quebec stay a part of Canada. BUT as a province equal to the others. Not above them. The current state of affairs has to change one way or another. OR are you satisfied with the current arrangements?
If you want to talk about intolerance, talk to a sovereignist. Not to me. |
I used to be in the Canadian military (army) too.
Its not hard to see how Quebec separation would totally screw the rest of Canada up. For one thing we would lack geographic continuity, the maritimes would be completely cut off from the rest of the country. Once can imagine the economic consequences of the political instability Quebec seperation would create either. The dollar would go on a rollercoaster ride, so would the stock market....We would loose about a quarter of our landmass and population. Our standing in the international community, which has never been particularly high, would be reduced even further.
Its also worth noting that Quebec doesn't have the Constitutional right to unilaterally secede from Canada either. The Supreme Court has held that a clear "Yes" vote in a referendum would only create an obligation to open negotiations between Quebec and the rest of Canada. Provinces do not have the right to secede on their own because of the effects that would have on the other members of confederation. There hasn't been any formula for negotiations laid out either, you could expect it to go on for years. |
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