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Deconstructor

Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject:

isanity wrote:

1) To be a better teacher.

2) China and Korea are near the bottom of the barrel when it comes to professionalism.

There are other ways to become a better teacher, much cheaper ways.

As for China and Korea being at the bottom of the barrel, agreed. Name a country that is not a bottom dweller when it comes to teaching EFL.

isanity

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 179

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject:

Deconstructor wrote:

There are many ways to skin a cat, grasshopper.

In terms of required qualifications, the TEFL industry in plenty of places is higher (note the comparative) than China and Korea. The entire European continent, for a start. The Middle East even more so. (And to save you the bother of saying it, yes, TEFL in those places has its own problems, and no, that's not the point. Or at least not my point).

Deconstructor

Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject:

isanity wrote:

What is your point, then, grasshopper? Are we talking about a decent place to work or not? If you think that Europe is better than other places, you haven't spent much time there. The money is as lousy as anywhere else, and much worse than Korea, especially the eastern block, not to mention that unless you're an EU citizen good luck on getting a working visa!

Middle East, you say?!! Well, the money may be good in some parts like SA, but you'd better find a way to survive in a dry, religious, stagnant, fundamentalist culture where the guys would love to take you to the desert for a mirage a troi.

isanity

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 179

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject:

Deconstructor wrote:

What is your point, then, san? Are we talking about a decent place to work or not?

You may be. I'm not. I'm talking about places which require EFL teachers to have qualifications.

Deconstructor

Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject:

isanity wrote:

Deconstructor wrote:

What is your point, then, san? Are we talking about a decent place to work or not?

You may be. I'm not. I'm talking about places which require EFL teachers to have qualifications.

A few years ago, I was teaching in Korea. All I had was a BA in English. Then I got a job in Germany. I had a MA in English. After about six months I was offered a job in Czech Republic. No one ever asked me for any qualifications such as CELTA or anything else. I was offered a job in Brazil. Qualifications: any English related field. Whatever that means.

A friend of mine is making $60 USD in SA. His qualifications. BA in History and English. What more need I say?!

isanity

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 179

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject:

Deconstructor wrote:

isanity wrote:

Deconstructor wrote:

What is your point, then, san? Are we talking about a decent place to work or not?

You may be. I'm not. I'm talking about places which require EFL teachers to have qualifications.

You could try to get to a point. I gather you've discovered that some employers in some places require some qualifications, but that these sometimes vary. That's a jolly good start, but it's surely not all? Confused

Serious_Fun

Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 1171
Location: terra incognita

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:30 am Post subject:

hey what happened to ESLman? Did he pass the CELTA?

FishcalledWanda

Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 12

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:46 am Post subject:

Deconstructor wrote:

Some of you guys are arguing that CELTA gave you confidence otherwise you would've been lost. Well, all you had to do was go to a local university library and read tons of stuff on EFL/ESL teaching including the CELTA method. You would've saved at least a few grand not to mention 10 pounds, as one of you said.

As I said before, CELTA is a scam. But, after all, teaching English past beginner levels in itself is the greatest scam of all.

You could make the argument that you are making about teacher's college and student teaching. Your argument sounds like you are stating that any teacher training is a waste of time. You should merely read text books regarding teaching and that is all. I could be wrong about what you mean.
Also, what do you mean teaching English past beginner levels is a scam? What do you constitute beginner levels? It is not clear-cut.
The CELTA, when compared to on-line EFL certificates, is probably worth more of your time than those on-line courses. Also, in Canada and Europe the CELTA is recognized.
I have not taken this course. I do not know how hard it is. It probably might somewhat disconnected from how I would teach. Or, it might be different from my experience.
I am sure it would be hard. It is like taking some summer courses I've taken at the university level. It can definitely be demoralizing when someone critiques your teaching. I know that is tough. But is better that it be done in teacher's college than when you actually go out there.
Honestly, I would be taking the CELTA for one major reason. It is recognized in Europe and Canada. It may give me some kind of advantage. And, just maybe, I might learn something new.
But I will admit, I am kind of apprehensive about taking this even though I have taught for 2 1/2 years in an inner city school, have a teaching certificate, and I am teaching English in Korea.

Anyway, hang in there.... It doesn't mean if they are not handing you everything on a platter, that you should panic.

FishcalledWanda

Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 12

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:01 am Post subject:

Deconstructor wrote:

isanity wrote:

Deconstructor wrote:

What is your point, then, san? Are we talking about a decent place to work or not?

You may be. I'm not. I'm talking about places which require EFL teachers to have qualifications.

If someone has a BA in English or an MA in English they look better than a person who simply has a BA in history. I have a BA in political science. I do not have a BA in English. I do, however, have a teaching certificate in social studies and some teaching experience in social studies. I would get a CELTA because I don't have an English degree. Also, some countries require a CELTA. That is not the case in South Korea or Japan. It still can be an advantage in those countries.
I would not mind getting an MA in ESL. What about getting an on-line graduate degree?
As far as the Middle East, they do require more qualifications and so does Europe. Probably, on the whole, the teaching environment is more comfortable in Korea than in the Arabian Gulf. Yes, the UAE and other countries want those certificates, but I think Korea, as a country, is more serious about learning English than Saudi Arabia. I would not say Korea is at the bottom of the barrel since the country focuses on English so much. More Koreans than Japanese speak English.

Deconstructor

Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject:

FishcalledWanda wrote:

The more you have the better I suppose. I think it's a mistake to become "well qualified" for en EFL job since a basic BA will do. If you're a good job hunter, you will get a teaching job in a short time as I did with only a BA and nothing more, and just as some of my friends have done.

After all, very few people will stay overseas permanently or at least a decade. Most return home in a year or so. If anyone's going to get qualified for a career, why not do it for the home country since that's where you will be working long term. And if you're qualified for an Anglophone country, you're definitely qualified for the rest of the world.

If you get a CELTA, how qualified are you for an Anglophone country? Well, you're pretty qualified as long as you're willing to work in language schools 20 hr/wk for $15/hr with no health care.

Henry_Cowell

Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject:

Let's not forget that obtaining a BA does not typically entail any teaching experience whatsoever. So, of those graduates with a BA, there are some with natural teaching abilities, good public speaking skills, and organizational skills that make them competent to begin teaching in an EFL or ESL classroom. Then there are those who have a BA but absolutely no idea how to prepare a class, teach a lesson, create and organize learning objectives, or interact with a classroom of students. For the latter category, a CELTA or other certification course is definitely helpful -- as a start.

Deconstructor

Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject:

Henry_Cowell wrote:

Let's not forget that obtaining a BA does not typically entail any teaching experience whatsoever.

So, of those graduates with a BA, there are some with natural teaching abilities, good public speaking skills, and organizational skills that make them competent to begin teaching in an EFL or ESL classroom.

Then there are those who have a BA but absolutely no idea how to prepare a class, teach a lesson, create and organize learning objectives, or interact with a classroom of students.

For the latter category, a CELTA or other certification course is definitely helpful -- as a start.

An excellent point, but let's also keep in mind that those who, as you said, have no idea how to prepare a class, teach a lesson, create and organize learning objectives, or interact with a classroom of students, should not be so hasty as to throw away couple of hard earned grand just to find out that even after the CELTA they are still more or less clueless. There is a pretty good chance of this happening.

There are better ways of finding out whether or not one is suited for a career that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. How about volunteering at a local Y or other community centers; talking to other teachers and the university career advisor; and, as I have always said, doing some research at a local university library before signing up for CELTA or anything alike?

Last edited by Deconstructor on Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

thrifty

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1665
Location: chip van

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject:

[quote="Deconstructor"]

Henry_Cowell wrote:

finding out weather or not one is suited for a career

weather?

Deconstructor

Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject:

[quote="thrifty"]

Deconstructor wrote:

Henry_Cowell wrote:

finding out weather or not one is suited for a career

weather?

You caught an error!!! Oh wow! Good for you!! Now you have something to brag about. Not only that, it made you laugh soooo hard! You know, laughter is good for you. Look! I spelled so with four Cheerios O's. Go for it boy! laugh some more.

Henry_Cowell

Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject:

The truly pathetic thing is that "thrifty" STILL (after all my tutoring) cannot use the quote function properly. He attributed a spelling error to me when I did not make it. And for that he laughed???

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