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Abba
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 97
Location: UK
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 Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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[quote]
......WTO, which is an organisation mainly aimed at promoting 'free' trade, mainly for the benefit of large corporations and governments. ...../[quote]
Yes, they have passed the first hurdle, but still a long way to go to pass the next hurdle. I think, they will not pass it until they allow true "free" trade, which means they have to allow foreigners and the West Companies to invest and open their own companies in KSA wihout any resctrictions or banning from the SA government. Look at UAE, they are really allowing for free trade and any foreinger can open his own business without limitations. In addition, KAFALLA and free trading do not co-exist, because of the limitations of the free will of the employeers (especially the ones working in private saudi companies). |
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Van Norden
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Saudi sounds like hell. Why not get qualified as a teacher? Then you can get a job at an international school |
Because I'd have to work hard and be professional and dress right and care about my job if I worked at an international school. That sounds like hell. All you have to do in Saudi is keep turning up each day. |
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Queen of Sheba
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 397
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Once again, another noteworthy post by the eternal underachiever. |
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Van Norden
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Many thanks Queenie, your patronage is truly appreciated. I do feel compelled to weigh in whenever - time permitting - I have a valuable contribution to make. |
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Queen of Sheba
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 397
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Van Norden wrote: |
| Because I'd have to work hard and be professional and dress right and care about my job if I worked at an international school. That sounds like hell. All you have to do in Saudi is keep turning up each day. |
Whats "valuable" and where is the "contribution" in that? Perhaps it contributes to the fodder of the land... |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Trying to talk sense to Van Norden is a waste of time. he has joined the 300 Club and that is his only interest in life now - trying to survive on 10 Saudi Riyals a day. 300 a month, hence the '300 Club" !
He has gone to a place from whence there is no return ! |
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Queen of Sheba
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 397
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Good point Scot47. |
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Van Norden
Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Membership is open to all, Scot47. We do ask that you curb your profligate ways however. Maybe the less prestigious CLUB 500 is a more realistic option for you. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Look at UAE, they are really allowing for free trade and any foreinger can open his own business without limitations. I |
Yes, and while you're at it, look at their labour laws. They are pretty similar to those in KSA. As even the tame state-controlled Emirati media have finally realised, Asian workers are treated like slaves in the 'liberal' UAE. I know that they kindly allow "Westerners" to hold on to their passports, so desperate are they to gain the approval of The White Man. But to imagine that the UAE is some sort of worker's paradise is a total nonsense. Allowing rich "Westerners" to invest is one thing; alllowing workers' to have even basic rights is quite another. Don't believe the hype. |
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The_Prodiigy
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:04 am Post subject: |
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UAE is by ANY measure a more liberal, humane place to work than KSA.
From natural working environment through to cultural aspirations and freedom of choice.
To imply otherwise is inaccurate. |
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Amenti
Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 42
Location: farthest sandbox on the right
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Dear Dracotei,
I know several people who travel to and from KSA with their cats. It has not been a problem for them as long as they have done their paper work. You will have to check into what that entails. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| UAE is by ANY measure a more liberal, humane place to work than KSA. |
If by "ANY measure" you mean having white skin and a desire to insulate yourself from the 'rag-heads' and their weird ways, then yes, I'm sure the UAE would be a veritable paradise for you.
Others, however, might find your defination of 'liveral and humane' to be somewhat selective.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/business/4903794.stm |
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Abba
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 97
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
... But to imagine that the UAE is some sort of worker's paradise is a total nonsense. Allowing rich "Westerners" to invest is one thing .. |
You have to read very carefully my last contribution, I did not say that UAE is a worker's paradise. I was comparing the free trade regulation betwen the two coutries, and UAE is much much better than SA in this sense. Eventhough the third world workers are treated like slaves in both counries, bu still UAE is much better also in this sense. I have worked in UAE and SA, and frankly there is a big difference between the two countries, especially social life and individual freedoms. Not only the rich "Westerners" can invest in UAE, the majority of people who own their business, or at least, sharing the business with a local UAE, are from India, Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria, and so on, and you will not find this happening in SA.
The other thing, I wonder if Cleopatra of Saudia can drive in Riyadh, or can wear Abaya which is not BLAK in color and go out in Jeddah or especially Qassim ??? which is not the case in UAE. In UAE, women are allowed to drive, and to wear what they like without the interference from the government. Do you know that most of the Saudi women wear their black abaya by tradition and not by religion. Becasue in Isalmic teaching , there is no reference at all, in Islamic Books or prohet tradition, that the hijab should be in Black color, this is all based on Tribe tradition and has nothing to do with Moslem religion. I forget to tell you that in UAE, a woman can travel where ever she wants and work whithout a MAHRAM, is it possible this in KofSA?
Have a nice day. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| I was comparing the free trade regulation betwen the two coutries, and UAE is much much better than SA in this sense. |
I have never argued with this. However, the fact that the UAE allows rich foreigners to invest in their bubble economy (the 'rag heads', of course, should not expect such favours to be returned, especially not if the 'security' of American ports is an issue) does not have anything at all to do with workers' rights, which are lousy in both countries, and indeed, everywhere in the Khaleej.
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| Eventhough the third world workers are treated like slaves in both counries, bu still UAE is much better also in this sense. I |
So what you're saying is that Asians are still slaves in the UAE, but higher-class slaves? Is that what you mean?
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| the majority of people who own their business, or at least, sharing the business with a local UAE, are from India, Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria, and so on, and you will not find this happening in SA. |
You're right here too. I will confess that I've never heard of anyone sharing a business with a 'local UAE' in Saudi Arabia.
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| I wonder if Cleopatra of Saudia can drive in Riyadh, or can wear Abaya which is not BLAK in color and go out in Jeddah or especially Qassim ??? |
What a BLAK abaya is, I do not pretend to know. Personally, I always wear black abayas, as do the vast majority of women here in Riyadh. You will see some coloured robes in more 'liberal' cities like Jeddah, if that's important to you.
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| which is not the case in UAE. |
What is 'not the case'? That they don't go out in Jeddah or especially Qassim in "UAE"?
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| In UAE, women are allowed to drive, and to wear what they like without the interference from the government. |
Which is why all Emirati women walk the streets in tight jeans and sleevless tops. Oh, they don't? They mostly wear black (or maybe BLAK) abayas and tarhas, not unlike those worn in Riyadh? Not that I care, mind you, but I know how obsessed so many people here are with the issue of women's dress.
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I forget to tell you that in UAE, a woman can travel where ever she wants and work whithout a MAHRAM, is it possible this in KofSA?
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Why are you asking questions that you should be able to answer if you've lived in KSA, as you say you have? Because if you have indeed lived here, you'll know that the 'mahram' issue is more one of custom rather than law. As a foreign women, I can and do work and travel without a male companion. Saudi women usually need the written permission of a male relative to do either, but then again, if you've ever spoken to an Emirati woman, you'll find that probably do too. Even if this is not enshrined in law (and I know that Emirati women, and indeed most Arab women, cannot leave the country without their husband's/father's permission), it is enforced by social custom, which is at least as powerful. |
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Abba
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 97
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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. ..... Because if you have indeed lived here, you'll know that the 'mahram' issue is more one of custom rather than law. As a foreign women, I can and do work and travel without a male companion. Saudi women usually need the written permission of a male relative to do either, .... . I know that Emirati women, and indeed most Arab women, cannot leave the country without their husband's/father's permission), it is enforced by social custom, which is at least as powerful. |
Indeed, I lived and worked in the most difficult part of SA, which is in the south, where customs and tribe tradition are very strict than in Riyad or Jeddah. I think you have a mis-understanding of the issue of MAHRAM . The regulation (and not custom) of MAHRAM is mainly applied to muslim foreign women when they come to SA for work or visit, and of course the same rules are not applied for a non-muslim woman (not all). Do you know that, my friend applied for a visit visa for his mother whose age is more than 70 yrs old, the SA immigration authorities in Jeddah asked him that she should be accompanied by a relative or close friend.
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What a BLAK abaya is, I do not pretend to know. Personally, I always wear black abayas, as do the vast majority of women here in Riyadh. |
At least, where I was living in Abha, and in most cities of SA, the religious police (Mutawaa) will harass you if your hijab (Abaya) is not black. This happens to a muslim woman who was wearing a colorful Abaya, and the Mutawaa asked her tnot to wear Abaya which is not black !!!!
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I know that Emirati women, and indeed most Arab women, cannot leave the country without their husband's/father's permission |
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This is not true, Most of the Arab countries (except SA, and probably, few khaleej states), the woman can travel without permission from her husband or father. The government laws, in some of the arab countries, like Algeria, they require a permission from a father to allow his children under 18 yrs to travel with their mother or close family member, and it has nothing to do with the customs or tradition. But in SA it is the tribe customs which dictate the laws. |
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