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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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 Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| So if what you write is the 'unblemished truth' then prove it. |
well one truth is that when a fine upstanding gentleman like Clark gets all personal - and resorts to mindless name calling - I was called a troll twice in that last post - then you start to realise that they are running out of objective argument  But carry on Clark - I excuse you - since I realise that its a tactic to try and discredit me, in an attempt to relocate the focus of the real argument here - working conditions - which, of course, wouldn't be affected in the least whether I was a troll, lepricorn, or Tyranasaurus Rex. But I suppose, the way I write, does affect this place as an advertising board for the China ESL industry - so I can understand why certain folk would start to call me names 
So enough of my talk - you wanted me to re-hash posts - this one seems to be a good general indicator of working conditions here - one written by a poster with quite some experience - and allthough events may have taken place some time ago - all us on the ground vets recognise the China jobs desribed as the type of jobs you can find today!!! The post was put up less than a month ago - and unfortunately its not all sweetness and light - not the best advertisment for coming to China and working as a bog-standard (ordinary) FT. By the way its also interesting to compare Japan conditions here - but get through that bit - and you'll find its not a go to Japan post.
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I was in Japan from 1991- 1995. My nett wages then was JPY 375 000/month. We paid for our own apartment, which was then JPY 55 000, utilities blah, blah, blah was an additional JPY 15 000/month. We lived quite well; not exactly splurging and not exactly counting pennies either and we managed to clear ALL student loans by the end of our first year on the JET program. Of course, like everybody else, I did "private lessons" every chance I had. By the time we left Japan, we had a rather nice savings tucked away. An added "bonus" was that we got money back from the Japanese Social Security, can't remember exactly how much now, but it was quite a tidy sum.
Right after Japan, I went to Singapore for a year and from there I was offered a job in Wuxi, Jiangsu Province - this was in 1997. We were offered the equivalent of S$4000/month(US$2400 at that time) paid in to an off-shore account, accomodation provided, utilities paid for, transportation to and from school provided, free lunch at school and RMB 6000 "overseas cost of living allowance" paid in to the Construction Bank and an end of contract gratuity. I grabbed the offer without a second thought. Class size was small - and I mean small - average 12 students, my Grade 3 class was only 5 students!!! I had 2 split level classes - grades 4/5/6 but still I had only 14 kids. I finished my contract and left Wuxi and moved to the "big city", Shanghai where I worked at Fortune Kindergarten for RMB 12 000/month (this was in 1998). I left after 3 months for my then boyfriend was relocated to Hong Kong.
I came back to mainland China in 2002 - alone - this time I decided that I'd like to see the "real" China - whatever that means! I went through an agency and they placed me in Baoding, Hebei Province. It was the No. Something Middle School - class size - 45 angry teenagers - they weren't angry with or at me though, thank God for that!! My monthly wages was RMB 3500, an apartment with very little heating in the winter was provided free of charge- there was something about giving me RMB 2200 for me to travel during the Spring Break but somehow I never saw the money and I never bothered asking. There was also something in my contract that said I would get 2 days off for Christmas and 1 day off to celebrate my country's "birthday". I was given 2 days off for Christmas, but was asked to make up those classes on Sundays - so they were not really days off now, were they. I complied with the school's "request".
Canada Day came and went and NO, I did not get a holiday. There were a whole bunch of other things, but I just let them all slide - my students were great kids, angry as they were, they were the ones who made me stay.
Now, the people managing the school - they were NOT poor by any stretch of the imagination. No, no NOT AT ALL. They drove nice cars, very nice cars, splurged at fancy eateries, had wives with fancy clothes and you know, I am really happy for them. So, yes, there is money in Baoding (can't say for the rest of China, but in Baoding, definitely), the money was simply not meant for us the teachers (or the students for that matter!!)
Then I went on to Huanggang in Hubei Province - this was quite an experience!! Totally rural area - only one word to describe Lanhu - DIRTY!! We rode in taxis with no suspension whatsoever, you bounced up and down and chipped a tooth! The taxi drivers packed as many as 7 of us in his little suspensionless Citroen. When it rained, it flooded, the roads were unpaved. Yes, we had money in our pockets, but no, there was not much to buy really. Meat was a luxury, not that it was expensive, it just was not available. The farmers raised their own poultry or whatever and the best we had was cured meat. Fried rice or noodles was 2 kuai and a bottle of beer 5 kuai. The nearest town, Wuhan, was about 2 hours drive away. I made RMB 4000/month, but I still managed to save a good chunk of that without really trying - there was nothing to spend on. Entertainment for us was running round the track a few times a day, watching others play soccer, riding our bikes along the river, studying Chinese, doing taichi and the highlight of our life was our fortnightly trip to Wuhan Carrefour!!!!!!
Huanggang Polytechnic was a vocational college for students who could not make it to universities. We discovered that these kids were from affluent families and the college charged an exorbitant amount of fees - so again, yes, there is money!! But the money sure as hell did not go to us the Foreign Teachers - we were paid RMB 4000 (yes, the agency which recruited me gave me a raise!!!). There were a lot of issues - late payment, contract not honoured blah, blah, blah,. I finished my contract, was awarded a certificate of some kind for deciding not to leave the country during the SARS outbreak, became a local celebrity, got my face in the front page of the local papers and decided then NO MORE mainland Chinese employers for me, thank you very much!!
The school charged unimaginable fees yet the resources were pathetic, the students' dorms were appalling and the school did not even have the decency to provide decent meals for these kids (which the kids had to pay for by the way!!) Anyone knows where all that money went to??? When we were hired, we were told the school is in a poor, rural area, so they can't afford to pay so much - fine with us - but at least provide the students with something that is consistent with the fees they forked over to the school. No, no, no, that would be asking for way too much!!
I am now in Shanghai - US$2700/month, housing subsidy up to RMB 6000, return ticket,wellness allowance, insurance cover, relocation assistance, class size max 22, professional development, transportation to and from school. I am back in the international schools - yes, the fees are exorbitant, BUT the kids get their money's worth.
Yes, there is money in China, it is simply whether they want to fork it over to others or they wish to keep it for themselves!!
I was going through a few other posts, this poster "kidfrombrooklyn" or something, he got it right when he said we shouldn't settle for anything less than RMB250 or something to that effect. China may be a developing country, but it is a country that is developing in to a capitalist one and the money is there - those who have the money (and they are our laobans) want to keep it for themselves and they use "China is a poor nation" as an excuse. I fell for that line in my attempt to seek out the "real" China. But enough is enough!
Aiyaa! Have I strayed from the topic??? |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| vikdk wrote: |
| well one truth is that when a fine upstanding gentleman like Clark gets all personal - and resorts to mindless name calling - I was called a troll twice in that last post |
You're not in the kindy classroom now vikdk, so quit the complaining to the teacher when someone calls you for what you are! You're like that kid at school that as soon as he starts to lose the game changes the rules or takes his bat and ball and heads home.
I am not sure what your point was in posting that quote that you posted here.
First off, no one is saying that legitimate complaints don't exist. I am sure that I could find a couple of dozen serious complaints about schools if I had to. But considering the thousands of foreign teachers living and working in China at this very moment, even a couple of dozen serious complaints does not justify your comments on this forum.
Let's expose the schools and recruiters that are habitual trouble makers so that all can avoid them, but lets not tar and feather the whole industry because of a handful of bad schools.
If the government took the same knee jerk response to foreign teachers here we would have all been banned from the country long ago as I can assure you that there are some very unsavory characters teaching here in China.
Let's have a look at your quote though as I have a bit of time.
The teacher you quoted worked at five schools during her time in China yet only had trouble at two. Those statistics are pretty reasonable if you ask me and they certainly do not support your claims vikdk that most schools are trouble. In fact just the opposite so I question why the best reply you can come up with actually contradicts your point of view.
I don't necessarily agree that there is enough information about the not so good experiences to really crucify those schools however and justify a claim that they are bad schools that should be avoided by all.
First off we need to remove the references to the students, size of classes, personal opinions of the city itself, as these are all personal opinions that will vary from person to person. I am not saying that these opinions are invalid, but I am saying that they have little to do with whether or not a school treats its foreign teachers well.
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| there was something about giving me RMB 2200 for me to travel during the Spring Break but somehow I never saw the money and I never bothered asking. |
What does this mean? I assume that vikdk has automatically assumed that this was deliberate dishonesty by the school in an effort to try and support his case. Perhaps it was, but then again perhaps it was something else.
Perhaps the school forgot. Perhaps there was not such a thing in the contract. Perhaps this payment was based upon some performance level or some other criteria that the teacher didn't meet. The fact is that we just don't know.
Importantly though is the fact that the teacher chose not to pursue the matter. Fair enough if it was not important to that person, but if it was so unimportant that it didn't warrant asking about then should it really be considered important enough to complain about? I don't think so.
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| There was also something in my contract that said I would get 2 days off for Christmas and 1 day off to celebrate my country's "birthday". I was given 2 days off for Christmas, but was asked to make up those classes on Sundays - so they were not really days off now, were they. I complied with the school's "request". |
This is one of those things that upsets lost of foreigners, but a little bit fo research would have alerted the teacher to the fact that Christmas is not considered a holiday in China and that having Christmas off is something that a school can legitimately choose to offer or not. With such multicultural societies back home I can only imagine if every nationality was able to take the day off to celebrate their own religious beliefs from back home. I think that most schools are, and should be obliging, in this regard as it is a nice thing to give teachers, but it should never be seen as a given.
Secondly, it is standard employment practice here for staff to make up for days taken off for public holidays so why not for private holidays? I understand that this is unfamiliar to most of us but is something that you would find out if you did some research before you arrived.
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| Canada Day came and went and NO, I did not get a holiday. |
And this is exactly the reason that I think that schools should be a bit tough when it comes to holidays. I mean where does it stop.
The problem is that while a national holiday here is a holiday for everyone and therefore everyone knows that there will be no classes on that day. National and religious holidays not followed here can cause confusion. I support schools who offer these as they are trying to do the right thing, but I don't support the claim that it is disrespectful or unreasonable of schools not to offer time off for these personal holidays.
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| Now, the people managing the school - they were NOT poor by any stretch of the imagination. No, no NOT AT ALL. They drove nice cars, very nice cars, splurged at fancy eateries, had wives with fancy clothes |
Oh here we go! What does it matter to an employee how much the company they work for is or isn't making. By this logic if you were working at a school that wasn't doing well financially then you would expect a cut in your pay accordingly? I wouldn't.
An employee gets paid an agreed upon amount to do an agreed upon job. If you want to get the benefits that come from a successful business then start your own school or negotiate some sort of commission basis when you apply for the job as teacher. If you accept a fixed salary for a job then that is what you will get and that is what you are entitled to no matter how much the company you work for makes or loses!
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| There were a lot of issues - late payment, contract not honoured blah, blah, blah,. I finished my contract, was awarded a certificate of some kind for deciding not to leave the country during the SARS outbreak |
First off I commend this person for sticking with the contract even though she was not enjoying herself. Whether or not the school is really at fault, or whether someone just feels down on the situation they are in, it is good to see that this teacher was upstanding enough to fulfill their terms under the contract.
As for the complaints, well once again they could be very valid ones, or they could be explainable incidences. We just don't know. So I really don't know that we can automatically consider this a school to be avoided based upon what we see written here.
This is really a major part of my point of view and I thank vikdk for essentially proving it. Yes there are lots a teachers who have bad words to say about their experiences in China as well as with schools in China (and taxi drivers, and street beggars, and waiters...and whoever else happens to be in the line of sight on one of those bad days or weeks). This does not however mean that these schools should be avoided by all other teachers, nor does it mean that teaching in China is bound to be a bad experience. Quite the contrary in fact, but it all has to do with how you view experiences that you have here.
And that's that! |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| am not sure what your point was in posting that quote that you posted here |
well if you were not sure of my point why did you see fit to use all those words on it??? Surely all that effort you put into that last post, and all those other posts you write in counter to mine, shows that I'm maybe one kindy teacher you do take seriously
But then again you try throw in a personal dig about my kindy work -
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| You're not in the kindy classroom now vikdk, so quit the complaining to the teacher when someone calls you for what you are! You're like that kid at school that as soon as he starts to lose the game changes the rules or takes his bat and ball and heads home. |
again why the personal stuff Clark - shouldn't the personal things we discuss here be related to our professional backgrounds - that foundation from where we can make our judgment on this industry - are they the rules you're talking about?
So, if the rule of your game is knowing what to call someone - well yes I am a kindergarten teacher - born and bred in the UK - with a bachelor degree in pedagogy from Denmark � a degree which gives me license to teach in kindergartens. I have been working in China since 2003, and I started working with my present employers in October of that year. I'm married to a Chinese woman and as such wish to make China more that just a fleeting stay - with this in mind I believe, just as I'm sure you also believe when you put in all that hard work into that buxiban site, that it's important to warn others of what goes on here - since this is now my home and I want to help keep it as "clean" and as �well maintained� as possible - especially that part of it where I take on the title of FT. Unfortunately - apart from that small world of my own practice and my contact with other FT friends - my main way of endevouring to do my "handy-work" is by trying to get through to others here on Dave�s.
So Clark your part of the game � your professional foundation, that pedestal from which you speak, and that toolbox and its implements with which you have constructed your FT world. Who are you - what work do you do - we know you have been here 10 years plus - from an early post I read you had once been a DOS, and we know you�re connected to buxiban - a site which reviews schools but also runs adverts for teaching companies and advertises FT positions in The PRC and Taiwan, and we also know you commute quite a bit between the mainland and Taiwan. Are you just an ordinary FT like the rest of us - is your daily routine something that takes place in classroom full of students - what kind of students are they � if indeed you ever have contact with any. You know if you go after me as kindergarten teacher - then the least you can do is give me a clue on how to tease you in relation to your present work
By the way sorry for the interlude with regarded to the post reviewing - got a corker coming up next |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Vikdk, for someone whose involvement in this forum has never risen above a level of ridicule of others, condascending comments, and more emoticons than the rest of us would probably ever use in a lifetime - I find your suggestion that you are 'offended' by the content of my posts pretty laughable.
The fact is that you are not offended at all as there is nothing to be offended by. All of this is merely your attempt to divert attention away from the questions that I have posted but that you have failed to answer. This is pretty typical of your involvement on this board and this is why I don't take your posts too seriously and generally just ignore them.
Those tidbits of personal information may be of interest to some on this board but I don't see how any of that either validates nor invalidates your comments so I question the relevance to this thread. As you know I don't care who you are or where you come from as I prefer to concentrate on the views expressed on this forum rather than who the person is who makes the posts. I believe that this is even one of the rules of this forum -disuss the post, not the person making the post.
| vikdk wrote: |
| from an early post I read you had once been a DOS, |
Ah? Really? I would love to see that post so please quote me. You seem so certain of this vikdk yet I have never been a DOS. I wonder how many other things you just get wrong but come here and state as fact anyway?!
Oh, and what does any of this have to do with this topic anyway? Nothing. It's just your way of trying to divert attention from the discussion at hand.
So in the absence of anything new from vikdk that is relevant to his point of view on this thread I will assume that he has come to realize that Gregor, Steppenwolf, Wordup, and myself are in fact correct that research is your best tool to knowing what to expect and how to avoid trouble when coming to teach in China. I assume that he has also now come to accept the fact that while some people do have legitimate problems with schools in China that they are the exception rather than the rule. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| I don't take your posts too seriously and generally just ignore them. |
You sure do use a lot of words when ignoring folk Clark
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| Ah? Really? I would love to see that post so please quote me. You seem so certain of this vikdk yet I have never been a DOS. I wonder how many other things you just get wrong but come here and state as fact anyway?! |
Well that's one tidbit of info we've extracted out of you - see it don't hurt so much to talk about the past and indeed even the present with relation to your China ESL employment
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| Oh, and what does any of this have to do with this topic anyway? |
Well ignoring that fact that you seem to have focused some attention to my Kindy career - I would have thought that anybody writing this - as you did in a previous post -
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| Vikdk why do you feel so threatened by the fact that others have knowledge that you simply don't have, and why do you feel the need to try to bring others down for having this knowledge? |
would categorise themselves as one of the folk with knowledge. So a poor simpleton like me would like to find out exactly what kind of knowledge I'm batting against - how the Clark version of knowledge has been formed - and surely it can't be just through helping archiving web-posts on ESL teaching in china - after all even you have brought the idea of basing knowledge purely on the evidence of posts as somewhat dodgy - there must be some practical experience in this industry - surely both past and present??? And you know what, that could help us readers to feel a little more comfortable with the "background" of Clark ESL judgements - and could help you score a few points in this discussion |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:46 am Post subject: |
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OK vikdk, so now you have diverted from your claims that you were offended by my posts back to your old trusty come back that essentially equates to nothing more than an appendage measuring contest of who is best qualified to have an opinion.
If you are going to continue posting here then wouldn't it be more worthwhile to just discuss the subject at hand? Why not just answer the questions that I asked earlier on that, unlike your diversions, are actually relevant to this thread.
| vikdk wrote: |
| Well ignoring that fact that you seem to have focused some attention to my Kindy career |
I mentioned the word 'kindy' and this equates to focusing the discussion on your career  You really have a very slanted view of things which perhaps explains why you dance around solid discussions so much!
| vikdk wrote: |
| And you know what, that could help us readers to feel a little more comfortable with the "background" of Clark ESL judgements - and could help you score a few points in this discussion |
If you have a problem with anything that I post here as you believe that it is incorrect or misleading then prove me wrong. Surely if am as lacking in experience as you are suggesting here then you should have no trouble out-arguing me. That's the way to prove your point, not trying to find dirt to throw in someones face!
I found an interesting thread that you have read as you just posted in it today.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=42147
In this thread the users of this forum pretty clearly prove your assertions wrong with a resounding 57% reporting that overall they have a positive view of their time here, while 23% report having had troubles but nothing too bad. Most telling is that only 10% have found China to be as bad as what you often suggest that it is.
Assuming that you are indeed correct vikdk, and that my lack of knowledge makes me wrong, then how do you explain this? Are all of these teachers wrong too? (except for the 10% who you could suggest agree with you of course)  |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: |
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With regard to the thread discussed in Clark's previous post - (funny you bring this thread up here, after you critiscised my re-hashing of relevant old posts as pointless - are you following my example )
Well 28% of the voters, so far, have had problems - certainly not the majority - but really a figure to make newbies beware!!! Even you can't dispute that this high number is nothing to be proud about and certainly one that shouldn�t be ignored - especially when you consider how difficult problems can be when you're so far away from home- you know, not exactly that easy just to pop back home to the folks or bosom friends when the going gets hard - especially if funds are short (I know we're not kids - but we're all human ain't we) 
Another thing to note is that over 40% have voted they are long-termers - obviously staying regardless of "problems" of the workplace - having their vote in here could mask the real satisfaction quota of the short-termers - so its kind of hard for either of us to use this survey as definitive scientific data that proves or disproves or stances on the situation of this market. But it sure does give us some ammunition to go after each other doesn't it
And talking about that - well a quote from one of my posts in the thread -
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| If nothing else, since the majority of voters seem to have a positive experience, this small poll starts to question Clark Griswalds highly scientific theory that posters mainly come onto dave's to gripe - and the griping whiners far out number the content FT. Any comments on a kindy teachers observations Clark |
you still haven't made a comment on this Clark - just as you are also stum on your working life within the ESL industry - but you must have your reasons - so I excuse you. |
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Francois
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: Guys, guys |
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| You two lovebirds should really kiss and make up. You both have a point. Pm each other if you want to "take it outside" |
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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: |
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The trouble with a noisy minority of posters (no names here...!) is that they pile ridicule on others who feel comfortable working in China. It's as though some guy(s)( can't find the right sort of fruit and constantly feed on sour grapes. Do these sour grape posters taake it as a personal slight that others publicise their postiive thinking based on their overwhelmingly good experiences?
Then it must be those FTs' fault if they are happy here...
The truth of the matter is that China treats us relatively fairly (I obviously am writing with a view on all options). Consider yourself lucky if you are not treated as Chinese get treated sometimes!
We are in fact better protected because most employers abide by contracts they sign (and which will be monitored by the P.S.B.). Our contracts are for specified contract terms; Chinese are now changing from lifetime tenures to contract terms as well; my girlfriend, for example, had to sign a contract for 3 years, and she will lose 5000 yuan if she quits early. In addition, her employer keeps her teacher licence - which is illegal!
There are many other aspects in which we fare a lot better than the Chinese do, and that ought to be borne in mind by posters who are professional protestors!
In my first couple of years my livelihood was threatened far more painfully than it ever has been since because in those early days employers were more unscrupulous, contracts were interpreted more subjectively by your employer and you had virtually nil means to rectify any situation gone bad.
Maybe the fact that an increasing number of Chinese students have been abroad is helping FTs that come to China now; these Chinese students come home from studies or a job abroad with the experience of being treated well. They inject into China the concept of fairness; surely even vikdk must agree that there are fewer bona fide cases of egregious exploitation of foreign humans by Chinese humans that have come to his attention? There are lots of rumours, to be sure, but we expect him to be so realistic as to know what is what.
In fact, it's more often FTs that get away with breaking the law than Chinese employers do! Am I being unfair to any FT here? I don't think so!
If you don't want to be viewed as a racial profiler, vikdk, you stop now your stereotyping of Chinese employers as keepers of "indentured labourers" or of "living off enslaved FTs".
If you really want to make big money in China AND be an FT, you should go all the way of being an employer yourself.
You are in a privileged position so you really shouldn't depend on Chinese bosses! You could set new standards!
But can you?
Meanwhile let's count all the language mills set up in, say, 2003 (the year when vikdk, according to his own story, immigrated to China), and see how many of the are still afloat!
The fact is that private tuition centres are in a very sensitive business with fixed overheads but unsteady revenues. Even if they improved the quality of their services, the market would not necessarily react positively enough to keep them going. Some operators lack business savvy, yes, others lack understanding of what teaching English is all about; still others have all these skills and are still in dire straits - because it's an unsteady market!
Which brings us to the chain schools such as EF - vikdk's traditional nemesis! And yet, the existence of these chain schools can be justified by their popularity.
It's a little like those illicit and addictive drugs in the West - were there no demand for them there wouldn't be any drug barons, drug couriers and anti-drug police! |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| You two lovebirds should really kiss and make up. You both have a point. Pm each other if you want to "take it outside" |
francois - you really calling that very important gentleman Clark a lovebird (as in we're both lovebirds)!!! I don't he'd like that since he has already stated in another post he is more knowledgeable than me - so if we were stuck in the same cage I do think he'd like to be seen as a bigger type of bird
And steppenwolf - well this is an absolute classic -
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Which brings us to the chain schools such as EF - vikdk's traditional nemesis! And yet, the existence of these chain schools can be justified by their popularity.
It's a little like those illicit and addictive drugs in the West - were there no demand for them there wouldn't be any drug barons, drug couriers and anti-drug police |
are you really comparing working at EF with an addictive drug - just try 40 hours a week with this bunch (classroom and office hours = 40 at many EF outlets) - to find what kind of addictive effect it has on your body
Jeez at those hours - in the context of "normal" Chinese working conditions - I could figure out why certain FT's would be thinking of seeking the services of the drug barons cronies!!!
Great posts boyz - but still don�t answer that time old mystery of who Clark is - and how he gained (and still is gaining) his mighty knowledge of the China ESL industry. A story that may also explain why he wont let this poor weary lovebird go to roost - but is always ready to fly into an aggressive territorial display every time I open my beak  |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Well here is a cracker of a testemonial on working in China - and being fair to those who promotote the positive attitude - well surely this is the blueprint for the kind of posts that we - and most perticulary newbies - should be reading -
By the way you can find this one on that most impartial of sites - English first .com
http://www.englishfirst.com/trt/testimonial_cn.html
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China is great.. better than I could have imagined, so very different from the life I was used to but in the same breath, the best choice I ever made.
Xi'an itself has a really good mixture of old and new, it is developing at a rapid rate but in turn keeping the old China alive by incorporating traditional style architecture into the new buildings. People's attitudes are still very traditional and it seems most older people are reluctant to change, however the young people are very excited about their future, for the first times in their lives.
The schools here are amazing, the people here who I work with are all really cool, all of similar age and background, I work with 3 people from Brighton and 1 from Chichester so it's really nice to have something in common. Everyone is or has been in the same boat at one point or another and knowing that makes the first few days after arriving not so daunting.
China is an amazing place with so much going on, life here never stops and every day is a new experience. The students are all so eager to learn, so beautiful and so well mannered. I can honestly say this is the best thing I have ever done and want to continue working for EF for a long time. I have loads of places I want to visit in the world and know that with EF I have the opportunity.
Rachel Marfleet, EF Xi'an 2005 |
Any body reading this - and believing that it expounds the essential essence regarding that story called working as an FT in China - even at EF - would really be coming here on a blind "working date". But this is the kind of positive story so many people connected with ESL in China would want you to read - and indeed believe, since they may want you to think that this all there is to this type of work - fun and travel all intermingled with a delightful job of teaching wonderfull kids. And why? Well of course they want your white azz over here as quick as possible so they can start earning the dough!!
Yes folks do your research before coming - and take with a pinch of salt some of that advice (including mine) that our superior knowledge is correct just because we say it is (so much of the time with no facts to back it up). China is of course a different story for everyone - and we all have our own Idea of what is bad and good - but you can be sure just as some people do have a bad time here - so many others are doing wonderfully - but rest assured, in both cases there are folk here making money out of the labours of these FT�s - so keep your wits about you - try not to get yourself feeling bad 'cause you think you're being exploited (stick up for your interests - wages here are about bargaining) - and really ask questions to your �advisers� about who they are and where their interests lie - and if they don't answer - then take an extra pinch of salt
Last edited by vikdk on Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:47 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Smitman
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Guangzhou, China
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Goodness gracious, what have I started? I guess I should apologize for sowing the seeds of an insanely long battle-post. I apologize for posting too hastily, without considering what might have happened after I prematurely lashed out at "china sucks everything sucks i am the all-knowing truth" posters.
On another note, thank you for some of your responses warning me about the honeymoon stage from those that did respond. It's been another week and I have to say it has been far from a stroll in the park. However, I have been and am still quite happy even despite some hardships. I believe one of the reasons, at least, is quite simple: that I am super lucky to have landed in a school that isn't as sheisty or shady as other schools that I have read about. There are many, many FT's here who have extended their contracts year after year, and many FT's that are willing to share their advice and insights with me regarding everything from lesson plans to life. I must admit, since I omitted it before, that one of the probable causes of me still being optimistic could be these very important facts.
Hope to submit a post in a year or so with more authority and experience under my belt saying the same thing.
Peace. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Francois, nice call. Apologies for derailing the thread.
Smitman, it is almost guaranteed that you will encounter some problems during your time in China. Very few would be able to say that even a year in China was plainsailing all the way.
As has been mentioned above by a few people including myself, the key to being happy here is to accept that things are not perfect and to just deal with problems as they arise. Don't get bitter about these as this bitterness will really start to eat you away. A degree of maturity is required to really enjoy living in any country that is so different from most of our homelands, but for most of us it is these differences that we are here for. This does not mean that you have to just accept everything that comes your way - quite to the contrary in fact. Just pick your battles and don't let the little things get you riled up.
Good luck! |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| A degree of maturity is required to really enjoy living in any country |
And for those who write here a degree of openess can also help - espescially for those who wish to enjoy recruiter free forums |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| And for those who write here a degree of openess can also help - espescially for those who wish to enjoy recruiter free forums |
Warning..if you are really open here the hyena will tear you limb from limb...and it may be good to have all types on this forum...just to see how the other half thinks..oh wait..I'm the other half...well then...it is good to have a variety of offerings..
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| is that they pile ridicule on others who feel comfortable working in China. |
Steppee..I would add that some posters would also pile on the (ridicule ?) when a poster presents his post that do not correspond with the Grand Wizard's opinion of world concerns ..such as human rights or countries such as the USA..after all..not all posters respect what the others have to say...
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| We are in fact better protected because most employers abide by contracts they sign (and which will be monitored by the P.S.B.). Our contracts are for specified contract terms; |
Like this...... a load of Hog wash... |
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