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mdk
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 425
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 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Darn, I shouldn't quote numbers off the cuff.
The LA riots were only 1 billion estimated cost. It was the resolution trust bank buy outs that ran 500 billion. I remember because we could have had an LA riot every day for 500 days before we would have run up the same tab as it cost to make good the Savings and Loan losses and rescue the banking system back in the day.
So if one LA riot costs 1 billion, can't we afford to pay a million for bilingual teachers to keep the sparks down? |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| mdk wrote: |
| Well Chancellor let's take our copy of Kant off the shelf and and apply the categorical imperative to see how equitable this practice is. If English speaking children were dumped into a Spanish speaking classroom and told to pick it up as best they could, would you call that fair? I don't think so. If it wouldn't be equitable to teach English speaking Americans in Spanish, then how is it equitable to teach Spanish speaking Americans in English? |
Yes, I would consider it fair. If someone emigrates to a Spanish-speaking country then it's the individual's (or, in the case of children, their parents') responsibility to learn the language.
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| As to how worker solidarity applies to teachers as well as foreign workers who have been enticed up here to have their labor exploited that should be self evident. Perhaps you are one of those unfortunate people who get lulled into thinking they are "professional" which in turn separates their situations from other workers. Well, isn't that like the house servants looking down on the field hands? |
That their labor is being "exploited" is not self-evident. Public school teachers, at least here in Western New York State, are fighting to gain recognition as "professionals" (in the same sense as doctors and lawyers).
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| Americans like to boast that they have a classless society. In the strict sense that is true, you need class consciousness to have a class. In America we only have social strata. That doesn't change the fact that the administrator drives a BMW, has a good health insurance and solid retirement benefits. Do you have that as a teacher? There may be a few, but is it the rule? |
I don't know that I'd agree with what you're saying, public school teachers in Western New York State make a pretty good salary, have an excellent health plan, and have an excellent state government retirement package. It's a typical leftist/socialist/communist ploy to try to play the class warfare card.
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| That is the oldest trick in the book. Management 's subtle use of language (or race issues) to divide the workers and exploit them. |
I'm not sure that applies to the issue raised in the original post. |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="mdk"]
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If I cannot persuade you with ...?
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You cannot persuade. The fact of the matter is that your position is just as dogmatic as the people you disagree with. They may disregard your facts just as you disregard theirs.
I personally largely agree with Chancellor here; perhaps the only difference is that I have no hope of persuading you.
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| I believe in individual responsibility too, but that hardly mattered when Los Angeles exploded in the riots. I saw chicanos looting TV's along with the rest of them. |
If you do believe in individual responsibility, you cannot justify their behavior even on socio-economic grounds (or else you do not really believe in individual responsibility).
You seem to reveal that when you place emphasis on state responsibility to supply foreigners with special resources to overcome their difficulties.
I consider Helen Keller and Frederick Douglass among the greatest American heroes - a disabled woman and a black man without formal education - but they are not popular heroes because their example calls upon people to overcome the obstacles facing them rather than to look to the state to solve them. |
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susurrus
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
| You cannot persuade. The fact of the matter is that your position is just as dogmatic as the people you disagree with. They may disregard your facts just as you disregard theirs. |
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