|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bje
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 527
|
 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Al Bidarnd wrote:
| Quote: |
very true saluki - all of the teachers I spoke to about this agree it is counterproductive and that they're not going to even try for the 4% or even 2% because in the end it's all subjective with basically not everyone playing on the same ball park - some teachers have accepted the situation that they don't like but are now happier because it means they they won't have to try and kill themselves to overdeliver - instead they'll do just their teaching and forget about the committees and PDs etc they used to do.
it would be professional to have some criteria so we know what we need to do to get the 4% though. |
Awesome! It sounds like the lack of criteria lends credence to your and saluki's impression re it being subjective/political. So inflation's around 15% (depending on who you speak to) and you guys now get 4% annually? With all that oil revenue coming in, what can they be thinking? HR's gonna be run off its feet next year- unless they use recruiters more, which I guess means candidates with fewer quals and less experience, and hence more problems for all concerned in the long run... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bje wrote: |
| It sounds like the lack of criteria lends credence to your and saluki's impression re it being subjective/political. So inflation's around 15% (depending on who you speak to) and you guys now get 4% annually? With all that oil revenue coming in, what can they be thinking? |
Is there any employer anywhere in the world where "merit" raises are NOT subjective and/or political? I have never seen one in 30 years of working in business or education in many parts of the world. I think the whole idea of even giving them is ludicrous from the start. It is never fair.
I also think that what I am reading here about the 'horrors of inflation' are rather overblown. The area of major inflation is in housing. But all of you are provided with free housing at HCT. So it affects them not you. The effects of inflation are highly individual.
If I had stayed there, and reached the ceiling for some years, my salary would have been up 5000-6000 dhs a month by now. As a single person who didn't drink and rarely ate out, I lived on 1000 dhs a month and saved at least 10,000 a month after paying for holiday travel. My car was paid for and flat furnished nicely with everything that I needed during my first year. So even if my living expenses went up 100% or 200% - tripled to 3000 dhs a month, my savings would still have gone up by 2000-3000 dhs a month over the same time period. Thus, over that time period, I was both reimbursed by my salary for the raises in costs, but it would actually have been doubled... and the excess added to my savings. (apologies to those of you who are not good with numbers... my first career was as an accountant)
Newbies might be able to buy less on their allowance and families with 3 or 4 kids are probably getting killed by school fee rises, but for most of you... really  They are never going to give teachers a salary raise based on some fantasy inflation percentage number that no one knows and fewer understand. People tend to focus and obsess on minutia like the price of petrol went up X or Corn Flakes or whatever. I would focus on the bigger picture - look at actual numbers. Am I maintaining my lifestyle and saving more? That is why I was there. I would have been doing it easily.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
al bidarnd
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| I also think that what I am reading here about the 'horrors of inflation' are rather overblown. The area of major inflation is in housing. But all of you are provided with free housing at HCT. So it affects them not you. The effects of inflation are highly individual. |
lots of hct staff have had to move to much smaller housing - some not big enough for their families - if you want to stay where you are and the rent has gone over your limit, you have to pay the difference - that affects staff.
I'm not sure how long ago you lived here VS but things have changed - prices are going up everywhere and we're not talking about minutia we get obsessed with. i don't know anyone who could save 10,000 a month.
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| I would focus on the bigger picture - look at actual numbers. VS |
Isn't that what people have been doing on this issue on this post? The actual numbers are salary raise DOWN from 6 to 4% - 6 and 4 are actual numbers. It's a bit strange to tell us to roll over and be happy with this because we can still afford Corn Flakes if they go up a dirham in price. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No, there has been little or no talk of actual numbers... there are only percentages being thrown around.
Everyone needs to look at their own costs and expenses. If people say the inflation rate is 2% or 5% or 15% or 25% - what does that mean to you as an individual? I stand by my own numbers and they are for comparison purposes only. I have compared notes on this with friends who have been there since I was there - so I know that I am in the ball park here. I have always led a very simple life. I buy what I want, when I want, but my needs and wants are not expensive. I am content with an older Sunny, don't need the most expensive sat system since I watch little TV, have no need for a mobile... and prefer simple foods. Most of my splurges were on travel.
Some people are naturally being hit harder than others... that is going to be the couples with 3 or more children. But, for singles and couples with 1 kid or less, there should be little change economically for teachers that have been there for 5 years or more. The raises over the last few years should have more than covered the raise in their actual costs.
BTW... I should point out that since I am American, I would not be hit by the exchange problems. But, that is a whole other issue that is not related to local inflation. Thus, those who live on the Euro or whatever would naturally have their savings affected - massively affected. And from what I know of global economics, it is a problem that will get worse. The dollar is likely to go even lower. But, that is completely out of the control of Gulf employers, nor will they feel the need to redress that problem.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mishmumkin
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 929
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Still at the rumor stage - I've been hearing it for the last year or so, but I think it may have to be done.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
metateacher
Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 12
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: 12% Ha! |
|
|
It was spun as a 12% increase but only for teachers on the top of the scale such as your self. For someone at the bottom it was only 6% as we were in line for an automatic 6% but now the increments are only 4%. In 3 years we'll be earning the same as on the old scale in and 4, less. With inflation into double figures we get less better off every year.
| ckhl wrote: |
The people I know at HCT have received more than a 4% increase over the past 5+ years. Almost double that (flat rate increase that eventually lessons as a %age of their overall monthly salary).
I don't quite follow you. I have been at the HCT for almost 12 years. You may be referring to the annual increments faculty receive until they cap out on the salary scale. This past year everyone got a 12 % increase, which still lags (probably) the rate of inflation, which, unofficially, has been estimated at around 18%. The cap has also been raised with about two or three additional annual increments. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
al bidarnd
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
No, there has been little or no talk of actual numbers... there are only percentages being thrown around.
VS |
little talk or no talk VS - which one?
Yes, if you look closely there lots of numbers in this thread
I always thought percentages are numbers - in 6% there is a 6 - that's a number - this number has gone down to a 4 - with a % sign after it.
prices are going up a lot - a shwarama in our local Lebanese cafeteria has gone up from 5 to 8 dirhams - not sure whether these are numbers VS but that's a 60% increase - other things are going up too with the price of wheat and oil going up (and yes, I know not everything is going up 60%)
My point is that the numbers related to salary increases at hct have gone down, meaning many/most will get a smaller increment (say 500 dirhams instead of 600 - these are numbers
plus...no one knows the true inflation rate but it is going up. (ok percentages but they,ve got numbers in them)
plus... the value of the dollar is hurting all of us IN the UAE (OK a rate, but rates also have numbers)
all of these numbers/percentages/rates mean we save less, even if we drive an old Sunny and have no mobile
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Everyone needs to look at their own costs and expenses. |
yes maam - and then roll over and be happy that at least it's 4% and trade the Honda Civic for the old Sunny to pay off the housing loan back home. why do we need to look at our expenses? coz we're getting less and it's not going as far |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
There is a reason why some people become accountants and others teach language...
The same reason that some of us leave the Gulf able to retire in our early 50's while others making the same salary are never able to afford to stop teaching.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
al bidarnd
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
There is a reason why some people become accountants and others teach language...
The same reason that some of us leave the Gulf able to retire in our early 50's while others making the same salary are never able to afford to stop teaching.
VS |
I'll also retire in my early 50s and i won't swap the Honda Civic for an old Sunny.
there is also a reason why some people feel a need to post about reduced salary increments and higher costs of living (coz they're suffering more and more and it affects us now) and others in retirement tell us to look at costs and expenses... and then hit us with their intros to home budgeting 101 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spicegirl
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 112
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
There's absolutely no doubt that prices have risen so much in the last 3 or 4 years that our lifestyles have changed dramatically. Price rises have affected all areas of our lives, not only for commodities, but also for services such as hotel rooms and restaurants. Just the addition of the tourist tax a couple of years ago made a tremendous difference.
Now, you might say that we should just tighten our belts another notch and get on with it .... that's about all we can do if we want to stay here. It doesn't alter the fact though that it's a reality, and that people are not exaggerating when they talk about the whopping great rise in the cost of living.
If you happen to have your financial commitments in the USA, then you're somewhat luckier than others, but after sending home your savings, you'll still have far less disposable income to spend here ... the pay rises are not keeping up with inflation.
Clear examples of this are health-club membership: mine's risen by 50%; hotel prices: 2 years ago I could get a room at the Crowne Plaza in Abu Dhabi for Dhs 390 including breakfast - now they're charging Dhs 725 plus taxes, with no breakfast. Sure, there are still special deals around, but they're very few and far between. You might say that these things are luxuries, but that's what we work for, isn't it?
Sorry, but I'm not in the UAE to exist on a diet of dal + rice, much as I love it. I'll probably be doing that when I retire, the way things are going at the moment. My savings, mortgage and other money that I remit to places outside the UAE is costing me at least 30% more than 3 years ago. My expenses in-country have also risen by at the least the same amount overall. Any salary increases in the 2 - 3 years certainly won't cover these increases.
Yes, I'm better off than my housemaid or the guy who delivers my newspaper, but you can't compare my expected lifestyle with theirs. I've worked hard to get my qualifications and experience, only to see my standard of living dropping as I get older, rather than rising.
Solution? Leave + go somewhere else .... but this is my home, and I've got the right to have a moan and groan, haven't I? Those who are living here in the UAE experience these higher costs on a daily basis - we're not exaggerating. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| al bidarnd wrote: |
I'll also retire in my early 50s and i won't swap the Honda Civic for an old Sunny.
there is also a reason why some people feel a need to post about reduced salary increments and higher costs of living (coz they're suffering more and more and it affects us now) and others in retirement tell us to look at costs and expenses... and then hit us with their intros to home budgeting 101 |
From what I saw when I was there, a great many people were in dire need of an intro to home budgeting 101. Mabruk to you if you don't. I was amazed at how many couldn't even figure out how to read their electric bills. Of course expenses have gone up and no one is happy, but don't expect the employers to bail you out. It has been clear forever that they don't much care about teachers. So each of us has to do what needs to be done to survive financially and reach our own goals.
Everyone makes their priorities. After my first couple of years in the Gulf, the whole hotel thing totally lost its charm and I rarely entered them except for TESOL Arabia or something like that. And as a single person, I can clean my own place, so I never had a maid in the Gulf.
So it seems that for many it is the cost of the luxuries that have gone up. Fair enough - for many that is the only reason why they put up with life in the Gulf. I chose to live simply when I was there, so I don't have to scrimp after retirement. It is nice to be able to leave the Sunnys back in the Gulf and have nice new vehicles now... and have my summer and winter homes in the US.
I do have great sympathy for those of you who are not living in dollars... (not that dollars are any prize now... but you don't lose on the exchange) that is really what has been eating up your salaries at triple or more the rate of inflation for the last three years or so...
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bje
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 527
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
VS wrote:
| Quote: |
I have always led a very simple life. I buy what I want, when I want, but my needs and wants are not expensive. I am content with an older Sunny, don't need the most expensive sat system since I watch little TV, have no need for a mobile... and prefer simple foods. Most of my splurges were on travel.
|
VS this is all very well; individuals choose different consumption patterns for a variety of reasons. You may be suggesting that an abstemious, ascetic orientation to spending places one on a moral high ground, and thus it is an ideal to aspire to- particularly when faced with an increasing cost of living. Although some may agree, I don't think this personal expenditure preference is all that relevant to a general discussion about current UAE teachers' dwindling income and reasons for it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mishmumkin
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 929
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
In dirhams:
How much more is the average teacher's DIWA bill now, in comparison to 5 years ago?
What about the cost of groceries at a store like Spinneys or Choithrams? What's the difference of the average weekly shopping trip between 2002 and 2007 for the Joe/Jane teaching at HCT?
How have the cost of mobile and internet services changed in that same time period?
Can we make some concrete comparisons between the cost flights from Dubai to Bangkok (or any other popular holiday spot) between 2002 and 2007? What about the cost of flights back to home countries? Have these increased, as well? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
al bidarnd
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 53
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
From what I saw when I was there, a great many people were in dire need of an intro to home budgeting 101. |
I guess they were simply having a good time.
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Of course expenses have gone up and no one is happy, but don't expect the employers to bail you out. |
I think what people are saying here is that people don't expect employers to bail us out. If you read carefully, you'll read that people are unhappy with reduced yearly raises - that's like bailing the company out
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| I rarely entered them except for TESOL Arabia or something like that. And as a single person, I can clean my own place, so I never had a maid in the Gulf. |
So you did splash out - I have never paid for a hotel here - way too expensive and I don't have a maid - lots of people don't.
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| So it seems that for many it is the cost of the luxuries that have gone up. |
really sorry, but a chicken shwarama isn't a luxury although it might become one with the price going up 60% overnight. Lots of other eateries are also putting up prices by a lot.
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| I do have great sympathy for those of you who are not living in dollars... (not that dollars are any prize now... but you don't lose on the exchange) that is really what has been eating up your salaries |
No, what's eating up our salaries is raising prices of everything which is why the reduced salary increment will make things worse
I'm not sure what you're point is VS by telling everyone that if you scrimp you can save and you can have 2 homes in the US - people here are talking about costs going up and salary raises going down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
