Job Discussion Forums

[Justin Trullinger]

Soapdodger may be abrasive, probably from all the years dodging soap. But that isn't actually any reason to dismiss his/her comments, which I for one found interesting.

And let's have fun- but it is a little rich to offer to absolve someone of their sins (unless you are the pope) and then cry foul when they get sarcastic.

Let's hear it for sarcasm, though- I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning without sarcasm to look forward to.

Back to the notion of guilt free work- offering substandard services for people's hard earned cash would make me feel bad, it's true. But I guess I wouldn't put it in the category of some things the military offers people.

I know, of course, that as a language teacher, you aren't directly involved in the offerings I'm refering to. Nonetheless, as a hard working, no doubt valuable, no doubt effective, employee of the military, you are helping to prop up the organisation.

I wish you wouldn't, that's all.


Best,
Justin

[johnslat]

And all of us who are unfortunate enough to have to pay taxes, should, I suppose, feel guilty as well since some of our money might well be going to support the fiasco in Iraq.
Mama mia - there do seem to be some judgmental posters on this subject, ones who apparently have nothing work-related to feel guilty about. But then, who knows? I imagine the instructors who gave flying lessons to certain Arab students probably couldn't have foreseen 9/11 either.
Putting guilt-trips on people is risky. Can anyone know for certain that he/she might not have engaged/might not be engaged/ might not in the future engage in some work-related activities whose consequences could produce guilt?
I'd say that only those who know they are and will forever be guilt-free can cast any stones. And, of course, there are no such individuals.
Regards,
John

[slaqdog]

In the past i have been guilty of teaching students*sob* can I get some of that sweet absolution?
What proof is it? Is it as strong as absinthe? no sarcasm thank you

[MELEE]

I described my employer because Sadebugo seemed to imply that no one was working in such a situation. I realize that the vast majority of the TEFL jobs are less than ideal and that is probably why so many people only stay in the field for short time. But Sadebugo also seemed to imply that working for the defense department was the "best" TEFL job there is, which I can not agree with. There is a lot about the US I've proud of, but the activities of the department of denfense are not amung them. For me federal benefits are not worth being part of that organization. I have a career, I have an attractive benefits package, I have job security, and I am part of an organization I believe in. It's not fortune, it's because I want it to be that way.

[johnslat]

Dear MELEE,

"I have a career, I have an attractive benefits package, I have job security, and I am part of an organization I believe in. It's not fortune, it's because I want it to be that way."

My congratulations - not all of us can be so securely the master of our fate and the captain of our soul. I hope your situation remains unchanged.
Regards,
John

[Sadebugo]

[soapdodger]

The progression of this thread might be interesting to note. First a poster creates a topic which is essentially saying "Hey, look at me, I've got a good job!". As the thread develops it becomes clear that this "good job" is actually involved with the military. I think there are plenty of teachers around the world, not least in Saudi, who are on a very good whack teaching military clients and have the sense, particularly in the current world political climate, not to go around boasting about it. To do so is to invite comment, although amazingly this did not seem to have crossed the poster's mind. If we look at my original comment, it is neither personal or directly critical. My second comment responds to the original poster's peculiar surprise that anyone would get "political" about something which so obviously is and tries to answer a question from another poster. After that things degenerate fast from the side of the original poster, unjustified accusations of jealousy, which I felt could not be allowed to stand unanswered, followed by suggestions that I am indulging in hypocrisy ( the correct spelling, by the way, Sadebugo). Once that was refuted the original poster goes off in a tailspin.

As far as I am concerned people are welcome to do whatever they want with their lives, but if they feel the need to publicise what they are doing on a public forum they should expect comment, which is presumably what they are looking for by doing so. That comment might not all be positive is to be expected, especially in this instance. I think the overall moral of the story is think before you post.

[johnslat]

Dear Sadebugo,
Yes, I worked in Jeddah for the IPA from 1980-1985 (and, off and on, for the IPA in Riyadh from 1986-2003.)
Don't feel too bad about having been in the Army; I was in the Marines for four years, and, worse yet, served in Vietnam.
But in a way, maybe my 19 years in the KSA was my "penance" for having been part of the imperialistic war-machine.
Goldarm, that old karma will get you every time.
Regards,
John

[Sadebugo]

[Sadebugo]

[johnslat]

Dear Sadebugo,
Well, as I recall, the IPA branch in Riyadh had classes for some Saudia employees back in the early 80s. But that's the only time I had any contact with them.
Common sense? Well, maybe I've acquired some. Lord knows I couldn't have had much when I joined the USMC back in 1963.
But that was long ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
Regards,
John

[ecocks]

on having a decent job Sade. I understand the original point of your post and am sure many others do as well. Nice benefits, damned good salary by any standards and a real career in front of you. The fact is that there are a group of people who feel compelled to try to inflict a political discussion in every venue they can find. Just ignore it and let their rant roll off your back.

I suspect you have successes and failures, highpoints and lowpoints, like most of us. If I were a few years younger, I'd be applying and I suspect that a few new applications are arriving on their site as a result of your post.

[Justin Trullinger]

I may be one of those who tries to inflict a political discussion wherever I can- I'm not sure. (But at least I'm kind about it- like the signature, Johnslat.) THough we shouldn't be surprised when discussion ensues, here, in a discussion forum.

And choosing a job, though the money matters, is a decision that for most people is influenced by their values. Sade, you shared your job, and why you think it's great. Some people agreed- some didn't. Both were affected by their values, which politics can obviously be a part of.

Same case for MELEE- she shared her job, and why she thinks it's great. SOme agree, some don't, and some are sarcy about it.

THere probably aren't enough jobs like MELEE's to go around. Or like Sade's. Which works out okay- MELEE doesn't want Sade's, and viceversa.

But just because I shared my ideas about what makes a good job (and remember, the OP shared his or hers first, on a discussion forum) doesn't mean that you should dismiss me (or MELEE, Soap, or whoever) as a political ranter. Can you really separate between the values that help you choose your job and the values that determine your politics?

Okay- rant over.

I'd appreciate a really sarcastic response, especially if it's funny. I am not averse to religious references, again especially if funny, and you can attack whoever you want. (Though when I'm looking for absolution, none of you are the ones I call.)


Best,
Justin

[johnslat]

Dear Justin Trullinger,
No sarcasm, sorry. Your posts on this thread have been quite reasoned and thoughtful, in my opinion. Speaking of opinions, we all have the right to our own, but I think we also have the obligation to respect the opinions of others (well, in most cases, anyway.) And I'd say you've done that.
What I dislike is people attacking others because those others don't conform to their views. I was thinking today about this old adage:

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

Now, what's always bothered me about that saying is I see an implication there, namely that if you ARE part of the solution, then you're NOT part of the problem.
And I'd say that's wrong. I think it's great to be as much a part of the solution as possible. But when/if you start thinking that means you're no longer still part of the problem, then I think that's when you run the danger of mounting a moral high horse and dispensing what I see as sanctimonious balderdash.
We are ALL part of the problem, no matter how much we are also trying to be part of the solution, and we will always be part of the problem as long as we're alive. That's because we're members of the human race, and, guess what - the human race IS the problem. Once we die and become mulch for worms, or ashes, then we'll no longer be part of the problem - actually, then we'll totally be the solution. But until that happens I think I'll follow some good advice and try to cast the beams from my own eyes before I comment on the splinter in my brother's eye.
Regards,
John

[gaijinalways]

Hmm, I guess JT and others put it well, it is a discussion forum. And OP, some people will have issues with working for the military/government. Everyone has to make a living, but of course some will choose to work at places that they agree with the ideals that their bosses hold. Some will work at places where they disagree, and some won't know what their bosses think or hold dear.

Now as noted, you OP, did claim it was the best job in our field. Obviously for some it wouldn't be, but in you opinion, it is. Fantastic for you. It helps all of us when people like their jobs. But it helps for you to be aware that some wouldn't think it would be the best, and that might be because of political considerations.