|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
windstar
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 235
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| when in Rome, do as Romans do! . <-- that is a period. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Zajko
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 130
Location: No Fixed Address :)
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| when in Rome, do as Romans do! . <-- that is a period |
Absolutely. Whatever you think or don't think about Saudi (or any other country's) rules or laws, nobody is forcing you to go there and if you choose to do so, you have ample time and opportunity to make sure you're aware of how you'll be expected to live and behave before you get on that flight. We're all adults and there's a wealth of freely available advice and information at our fingertips. If you feel you'll have difficulty in complying with the rules - simple: don't go. The same criteria would apply to a Saudi who wished to travel to the US or Europe and might, in certain circumstances, be required to dress or behave (or observe others behave) in a way they would similarly find unpleasant.
I'm not sure, were I a woman, whether I would have been happy spending an extended period of time in Saudi: but that's a matter of individual personal choice and not really the issue here. Whatever may be claimed, second or third-hand, to have been related to some embassy official by a nameless Saudi bureaucrat, is anyone who has spent time in Saudi honestly saying they didn't know that, in this culture, it's not OK for unrelated male and female friends/colleagues to be seen together in public?
Many of us may find that strange, difficult, distasteful or unnatural to varying degrees. Some may not. But if you're invited to visit someone else's house, you don't just ignore their rules or customs. And if you do, you can't really complain about being roughly ejected from the front door and not asked to come back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| windstar wrote: |
| when in Rome, do as Romans do! . <-- that is a period. |
As far as the laws are concerned- it's already been pointed out that in KSA the law is vague and open to different interpretations.
Going back to the point about the US embassy providing its citizens with info. about Saudi law. Seems quite reasonable to me that an embassy should supply this kind of information.
I wonder what the other posters might think about what I did in KSA and Kuwait. For 7 years I went in and out of these two countries carrying illegal medication (codeine phosphate). I was told it was illegal in both countries so I picked it up in the UK or Spain. Yesterday I read on the BBC that ''Westerners'' had ended up behind bars in UAE for doing what I did.
Was I a cocky Westerner flouting the laws of my host or was I right to ignore their ridiculous rules and follow the advice of doctors in the UK where health care is of a much higher standard than in either KSA or Kuwait? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: No beep |
|
|
Dear sheikh radlinrol,
"Was I a *beep* Westerner flouting the laws of my host or was I right to ignore their ridiculous rules and follow the advice of doctors in the UK where health care is of a much higher standard than in either KSA or Kuwait?"
In my opinion, the answers to your questions are "Yes" and "Yes." (but I would eliminate the *beep*)
Regards,
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| As far as the laws are concerned- it's already been pointed out that in KSA the law is vague and open to different interpretations. |
In which case, surely, it is best for foreigners to err on the side of caution, and comply with the requests of figures in authority, particularly when the matter is of relatively little importance?
| Quote: |
| For 7 years I went in and out of these two countries carrying illegal medication (codeine phosphate). |
Actually, codeine is not illegal in KSA. However, you do need a prescription in order to obtain a medicine which contains it. In other words, the availability of codeine in KSA is in line with much of the rest of the world.
| Quote: |
| was I right to ignore their ridiculous rules and follow the advice of doctors in the UK where health care is of a much higher standard than in either KSA or Kuwait? |
If you choose to live for seven years in countries where salaries and working conditions for ESL teachers are of a much higher standard than in the UK, then I'd say you're better off following the rules and be grateful that you weren't caught. As for the rules being 'ridiculous', you may believe that any regulation in the UK of GB and NI is automatically superior to any regulation in the Middle East, but I wonder if that judgement is based on medical knowledge or on simple prejudice. Since codeine is a powerful narcotic, it hardly seems 'ridiculous' to control its usage. Many nice "Western" countries, including Australia, Canada and Germany, seem to agree. But then, of course, it's well known that the services provided by the geniuses of the NHS are far superior to those found elsewhere, so no doubt you'd be proud to boast about flouting the 'ridiculous' laws of these lands too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: Going to pot |
|
|
Dear Cleopatra,
" . . .you may believe that any regulation in the UK of GB and NI is automatically superior to any regulation in the Middle East, but I wonder if that judgement is based on medical knowledge or on simple prejudice>"
While you did throw a "may" in there, I think you may be being a bit unfair to the sheikh, who, I'd say, probably knows very well that there are plenty of "ridiculous" laws in the "West."
One of my favorites is that in California and New Mexico, the growing, dispensing and smoking of medical marijuana is legal (with a doctor's prescription), but it's illegal as far as the federal government is concerned.
The result is that businesses and users in those states are sometimes raided and arrested by the Feds, although they are in complete compliance with the state law.
Weird world, isn't it?
Regards,
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry Cleo but I was told by pharmacists and doctors (i.e. medical men) that Codeine was NOT available in either KSA or Kuwait.
You obviously don't have a high regard for the NHS. I do.
In any case, why do leaders of said nations head for London or New York for treatment?
 A senior doctor in Riyadh told me that anyone who had laser treatment in KSA for eye problems should automatically be referred to a psychiatrist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| While you did throw a "may" in there, I think you may be being a bit unfair to the sheikh, who, I'd say, probably knows very well that there are plenty of "ridiculous" laws in the "West." |
My point was that since the sheikh does not, to the best of my knowledge, have any particular medical expertise, he seemed to be simply assuming that Saudi regulations regarding codeine were 'ridiculous' just because they differed from those in the UK. In fact, as I pointed out, codeine is a regulated drug in many countries - for example a bit of cursory research has informed me that, in Hong Kong, the penalty for trafficking in codeine can be life imprisonment. In other words, Saudi laws regarding this drug are perfectly within international norms.
Certainly - and for what it's worth - many Saudi laws do indeed seem indeed unusual, if not bizarre, within the international context. However, I think if the sheikh wanted to demonstrate the 'ridiculous' nature of Saudi law, he chose a rather poor example. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Sorry Cleo but I was told by pharmacists and doctors (i.e. medical men) that Codeine was NOT available in either KSA or Kuwait. |
Oh well. Maybe someone should tell them that one of the largest hospitals in Riyadh is prescribing a painkiller which includes codeine among its ingredients. I have the boxes to prove it, if anyone is interested.
| Quote: |
| In any case, why do leaders of said nations head for London or New York for treatment? |
Perhaps because any fool could tell you that specialised medical care for those who can afford it, is obviously going to be far better in an advanced first world nation than in a developing country. D'oh!
But, thank you for setting up a strawman instead of addressing any of my points. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
UK is an advanced first-world nation? Thanks for that Cleopatra. Not often you say anything positive about our beloved Albion.
Going back to the Codeine thing, I don't believe you. I prefer to believe the pleasant young doctor at the Elite medical center on Tahlia Street who told me that Codeine was NOT available in the Magic Kingdom. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| our beloved Albion. |
Apart from the "UK" not being at all equivalent to "Albion", it may be yours, but it certainly is not 'ours'.
| Quote: |
| Going back to the Codeine thing, I don't believe you. |
You don't? Oh well, that's too bad. I'll just have to get over the fact that some anonymous ESL poster thinks I would invent stories just to impress him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: Al Chohol |
|
|
Well, if we want to talk about a Saudi law being "flouted" by both ex-pats and locals, I'm surprised no one has cited the prohibition against alcohol yet.
Oh, I imagine a good percentage of the locals observe the law (although I also met a significant percentage who didn't), but I suspect the number of ex-pats (especially Western ex-pats) who break that law is rather high.
Prohibition didn't work too well here in the USA, either - yet another example of a ridiculous Western law.
Regards,
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Go on Cleo, admit it. When you hang up your abaya, it's back to the Bogside or Derry for you. Albion or UK, who cares? Your Saudi mates will turn their backs on you. At least I'll still be golfing and knocking back the wine long into my dotage.
Regards
SR |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Order, order, order!
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
Anyone who breaks the law I will send him to Guantanamo.
The Sheriff 007. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 007 wrote: |
Order, order, order!
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
Anyone who breaks the law I will send him to Guantanamo.
The Sheriff 007. |
You are above all laws, Uncle Bond. Even the laws of nature. You are omnipresent, being located in so many different places. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
