Job Discussion Forums

Capergirl · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:11 am Post subject:

I love children, but I was honestly never sure that I wanted children of my own. However, fate decreed that I would have one - she is the love of my life. I am not exaggerating when I say that this little lady has made me a much better person. I would love to have another (or two) someday but I seriously doubt that will happen. Sad

Even if I don't have any more, I am grateful every day for the one I have now. Smile

To have or not to have children is a matter of personal choice (and circumstance). I'd rather not read about any more children in this world who are mistreated, abandoned, or murdered because their parents didn't or don't want children. If you know you don't want children, by all means don't have them. If you do want them, I hope your wish will be fulfilled someday. Smile

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

I think some of you are misunderstanding me. In no way have I said that people who don't want children are selfish. I said that one of the reasons people don't have children is because they are selfish. There is a big difference.

Those of you who have been in a long term relationship know that in order for it to work, you have to do a lot of giving. Even when you don't feel like submitting or compromising, you have to at times.

Having children is not for everybody, I agree with many of you. Some of you recognize that you'd make lousy parents and have no urge to procreate, and I completely respect your decision.

guty · Joined: 10 Apr 2003 Posts: 365 Location: on holiday

I agree with those who dont want kids because they think they wouldnt be good parents, to me that is an unselfish attitude, in many cases the easy thing to do would be do as most other people, have kids to fit in and regret it for many years after.
I also agree with those who were surprised at the intolerance of some of the responses on both sides, I still think travel should broaden the mind to the point where you can accept people have values and priorities that are different to yours, no better and no worse, just different.
I do find that kids make your house smell funny though.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Dr.J · Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 304 Location: usually Japan

Here's a strategy I'm considering: marry a single mother. That way, I don't have to deal with the first eight years of screaming baby, and I get the moral credit for giving the kid a father! Diabolical genuis or what!

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Dr. J, good idea. I bet there are a lot of single moms out there who`d love to have a male influence in their child`s life. I don`t have any 8 yr olds, but I`m willing to bet that the teenager years are not going to be a piece of cake. At least an infant isn`t going to crash your car or elope with a loser.

Will. · Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 783 Location: London Uk

I never got back to this bone of contention.
Yep, I am selfish, the biggest ego that I know. I am so selfish I could not imagine putting myself out for a child, To have one I mean. Not until I felt myself in a position to be able to give of myself for that child, (as opposed to some who procreate for the latest accessory in the line for a councl house) I know myself very well and know that I could not guarantee to be there when they needed me and until then.... don't start something you can't finish, and finish properly. I can go hungry, sleep rough, etc
I wouldn't wish it on a child, especially my own, security is important for ankle-biters. I can't even guarantee my job for the foreseeable future so it will have to wait.
That is responsibility. That is the role of parent.
I still think I'd make a nice dad though.

Cleopatra · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:10 pm Post subject:

I totally disagree that not having kids in any way indicates that you are selfish!!!

If anything, it's the other way round. Lots and lots of people have children for purely selfish reasons - to prove their sexuality, gain social respect, send their genes into the next generation, save their marriage ...

Anyway, how can you be selfish if you're not depriving anyone of anything? If you don't have a child, you are not creating another person - therefore there is noone to be 'selfish' towards. Also, I've often found that parents use their children as an excuse to opt out from being socially responsible or thinking about bigger issues other than the cost of schooling. "Oh, you know, it's fine for YOU to get involved in charity and so on but me, -I've got my family to think of..." Such excuses can be vaid, of course, but often I've found that people who have kids - who are an extension of yourself - are less concerned about the wider world than people who don't.

And let's not forget that the planet has no particular need for lots of children - not "Western" kids, who accumulate more waste and cause several times more environmental damage than kids in Third World countries.

SueH · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 1022 Location: Northern Italy

The arguments seem to have got rather bi-polar. I don't think that this approach is appropriate to the question of having or not having kids, any more than sexuality or gender are purely bi-polar.

In all three cases people can be on different places on the spectrum. Sometimes circumstance dominate and choice often has very little to do with it.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Cleopatra, who said that not having children means you are selfish? If you think it was me, then read my post again. You are reading into something that isn't there.

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

Selfishness can exist in both camps: those who want kids and those who don't want kids. People who choose not to have kids because they don't want to give up their own freedom could be considered selfish (but, as I said before, if they really are selfish, they probably wouldn't make good parents anyway, so it's best all around not to have kids), and people who want to have kids for some of the reasons that... Cleopatra???... mentioned can also be considered selfish.

Likewise, people who choose not to have kids because they don't think they would be good parents or because there are already too many unloved/unwanted children/adults/animals on this planet are, in my opinion, making a compassionate decision not to have children. And people who choose to have children because they truly want to give something to the world (in the form of a child that has been cared for and loved and taught to love and respect others) are doing something equally compassionate.

Having or not having children does not in itself make anyone more or less selfish, caring, good, etc. than people who make the opposite decision.

d

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

This thread officially sucks. Confused

nomadder · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:51 am Post subject:

Gordon you did say selfishness at one point on this thread. Maybe you want to take it back?

It's a tricky topic. Everyone is different and it partly depends on your background and the type of person you are and what you want to do(ie extensive travel for one would be difficult with kids), how much you have to give, whether you have a good relationship, the placement of the moon in your chart Laughing

Anyway there is no right or wrong answer but these days there are more choices. Hallelujah! [/quote]