|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
|
 Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| coledavis wrote: |
| Yes Bels, I agree with you that the Russian authorities have been tightening up on visas etc. Hopefully this means that those schools which go through the hassle of getting a proper licence will only pick people who have done recognised courses (depends upon your view of backpackers of course). On the downside for new teachers, I suspect that the recession in Britain will lead to more graduates taking the CELTA and teaching abroad as just something better to do than sitting around on the dole at home. So competition amongst newcomers will probably increase. |
Do you honestly want the monopolisation of CELTA. don't you think they had enough of this. Hoover tried that, but is Hoover the only vacuam cleaner? There are better qualifications around, and much more suitable and convenient for student requirements. NO! I am fully aware that there are a lot of mickey mouse so called TEFL qualifications around. What about linguist degrees and TESOL qualifications that meet The British council specifications?
The British Council claims clearly that they do are not able to commend any particular course, and I must presume that is CELTA and Trinity, and so they should as it would be sensitive otherwise. There are some very very good TESOL courses overlooked by many respectable colleges and Univerities, that have at least the British Councils 160 hours study required including the minimum of 24 hours observed practical teaching by a qualified teacher tutor. Of course these 20 hour online courses are garbage, but they do fool many foreign employers, or they don't car, as they simply want a native speaker, and they will judge each individual as it is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BELS wrote: |
| coledavis wrote: |
| Yes Bels, I agree with you that the Russian authorities have been tightening up on visas etc. Hopefully this means that those schools which go through the hassle of getting a proper licence will only pick people who have done recognised courses (depends upon your view of backpackers of course). On the downside for new teachers, I suspect that the recession in Britain will lead to more graduates taking the CELTA and teaching abroad as just something better to do than sitting around on the dole at home. So competition amongst newcomers will probably increase. |
Do you honestly want the monopolisation of CELTA. don't you think they had enough of this. Hoover tried that, but is Hoover the only vacuam cleaner? There are better qualifications around, and much more suitable and convenient for student requirements. NO! I am fully aware that there are a lot of mickey mouse so called TEFL qualifications around. What about linguist degrees and TESOL qualifications that meet The British council specifications?
The British Council claims clearly that they do are not able to commend any particular course, and I must presume that is CELTA and Trinity, and so they should as it would be sensitive otherwise. There are some very very good TESOL courses overlooked by many respectable colleges and Univerities, that have at least the British Councils 160 hours study required including the minimum of 24 hours observed practical teaching by a qualified teacher tutor. Of course these 20 hour online courses are garbage, but they do fool many foreign employers, or they don't car, as they simply want a native speaker, and they will judge each individual as it is. |
With regards to qualifications such as relevant degrees and masters in applied linguistics, I must obviously agree. However, I rather think that such people already know what they have and that the bulk of our readers are graduates with non-linguistic degrees who need to consider some form of four or five week preparatory course in TEFL.
There may well be other very good preparatory courses, but please consider two points:
Most students won't be able to distinguish between a good course and a bad one, especially as such students are just entering EFL/ESL. At least CELTA and Trinity are known to have some form of regulatory control. The danger, often realised, is that people go for the cheapest and end up having something that doesn't give them even the relatively limited preparation offered by CELTA/Trinity.
Secondly, of those employers asking for a particular qualification, CELTA is what is requested most, with Trinity occasionally cited and others, well never (except in the vacuum cleaned variant of 'other TEFL qualifications'). Indeed, employers have told me that having the CELTA has been one of the main reasons I've been shortlisted for jobs.
Unless there is some decent guide to which courses are worth having and which are garbage, as you put it, why shouldn't the CELTA be recommended as the obvious route for non-linguistics graduates? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Unfortunately I have to agree with you. All TEFL employers in Britain now require CELTA or Trinity as a minimum. Many of them don't even ask for the equivelent of CELTA or Trinity anymore. This is obviously ignorance on the employers part.
Yes there should be some sort of general standard set that all employers are aware of, in order for an employer to chose what is a good qualification, rather than simply playing it safe with Trinity or Celta. CELTA for children and teenagers!!! How crazy can that be!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BELS wrote: |
| CELTA for children and teenagers!!! How crazy can that be!! |
Yes, point well made.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: Re: what? |
|
|
| zeke0606 wrote: |
dear sensitive Canada reader, canucktechie ----
I have the feeling that you are missing the point of our discussion. Real teachers should expect a living salary and at one time Russian schools provided one. However, with the fly-by-nighter backpacker taking any salary offered, the russian schools have lowered the standard for salaries. And this lowered salary standard is below liveable - maybe not for Russians as they will usually have a dacha and lots of family suport. But foreign teachers - the real ones that want to stay - can not exist on substandard salaries that the backpackers have created by their acceptance of no benefits and lower salaries.
Not to mention that the real teacher brings real teaching experience and understands how to teach English. The usual backpacker can somewhat speak English, but lacks any idea of how to communicate the use of idioms or articles or even English prepositions so that the Russian students can actually learn something. After the backpacker leaves and a real teacher comes in --- then the unlearning starts and the students are now totally confused and the real teacher must teach to undo and redo the language that the backpacker so skillfully and totally confused . |
Fortunately you are now out of date. I believe the young native speakers are no longer flying into Russia like locusts. Due tothe immense rate of inflation here, and with so many Russians losing their jobs due to the world recession and of international companies pulling out.
There is also a big problem with visas and work permits making it much more difficult for backpackers than it once was. Just look at the vacancy ads now. Native and non native speaking teachers welcome. So they have resigned to the fact that they cannot find enough natives, or they can no longer afford them. Hence lowering the schools' standards simply because they are too greedy to pay them a decent wage.. They could have at least matched the inflation rate as from 1997. The true inflation rate I mean, not the published one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:39 am Post subject: Re: what? |
|
|
| BELS wrote: |
Fortunately you are now out of date. I believe the young native speakers are no longer flying into Russia like locusts. Due tothe immense rate of inflation here, and with so many Russians losing their jobs due to the world recession and of international companies pulling out.
There is also a big problem with visas and work permits making it much more difficult for backpackers than it once was. Just look at the vacancy ads now. Native and non native speaking teachers welcome. So they have resigned to the fact that they cannot find enough natives, or they can no longer afford them. Hence lowering the schools' standards simply because they are too greedy to pay them a decent wage.. They could have at least matched the inflation rate as from 1997. The true inflation rate I mean, not the published one. |
I'm not sure that it's greed per se. As you say, many Russians are losing their jobs, so there are fewer customers, and fewer customers mean a smaller budget. Yes, however, the market has tightened. This means however that the serious teacher, with a certain amount of research, can find a serious school, one which aims for a decent quality of teaching and pays for it. Although salaries aren't western and aren't going to be. So you need to be prepared for this and either accept it or strive for other things. The main opponent now will not be the backpacker but a relatively small labour market. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
canucktechie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: Re: what? |
|
|
| BELS wrote: |
| Just look at the vacancy ads now. Native and non native speaking teachers welcome. . |
What ads? I can find ads from BKC (for part-timers) and a mystery school or two, but that's about all.
I wouldn't mind some extra work.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Try expat.ru vacancies. I'm not sure about BKC who will require you to have a CELTA. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
canucktechie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BELS wrote: |
| Try expat.ru vacancies. I'm not sure about BKC who will require you to have a CELTA. |
That's where I was looking. Apart from BKC, a few nanny type positions and something called the Native Speakers Club, there are no recent postings.
Does anyone know anything about the NSC BTW? They sound a wee bit too good to be true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| For the experienced TEFLers, i.e. those who can apply to work for Russian firms and get cracking more or less as soon as they get off the samulot, you wouldn't be looking at the ads anyway. You go to www.visarus.co.uk where you find the directory of schools, go to the location of preference and go to the web sites of the schools for up to date contact information. You then approach the schools you like the look of. As I implied in the first line, this approach is likely to work for experienced TEFLers. I rather think newbies are better applying to English First, BKC, KFC whatever. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zeke0606
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 185
Location: East Outer Mongolia
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| coledavis - amen brother! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Spacibo, Zeke* Cole |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| coledavis wrote: |
| Spacibo, Zeke* Cole |
I have to agree with yo also spaceeba!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
|
| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Although I have to revise my comment on the position re backpackers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8065615.stm
The UK government are recommending that universities advise new graduates to weather the recession by internships and voluntary work. I rather think that if this takes off, there will be more graduates opting for TEFL. For those readers who are new to TEFL, I would recommend getting experience now, as this will make the difference if new graduates enter the market.
I have to agree with BELS and others, however, that if TEFL entrants increase in number because of this advice, then pay is likely to be suppressed all round. Maybe rather than seeking higher pay, try to use your experience to get the best all-round deal; for example, try to get your electricity and internet paid for by the firm. (I don't mean that you shouldn't try to get paid what you're worth, but that it is less likely that you are going to get it!) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
