Job Discussion Forums

[rusmeister]

[SueH]

The germane answer is that, within the EU, no, they couldn't.

Syephen Jones was making the point I'd made earlier in the thread but which was conveniently ignored. To use an old cliche' - don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

If you want to look at it from another perspective, should US citizens who are employed by US subsidiaries abroad be obliged to speak the language of the country they are going to, and to what level? There would be a lot of postings home I can assure you, and a frantic surge in language learning in the US.

I've been frustrated with the level of English of some of my ESOL students in the UK, but mainly because of the way it excluded them from society, particularly decent employment. This guy was employed and holding down a job.

Of course a certain level of English is _desirable_, but sanctions are a disturbing way to go, IMO. Pity the poor tourist who comes across an Alabama trooper like the one involved, although higher authorities in the US seem to be doing a good job in cutting back foreign tourism.

[Marcoregano]

Hi Russ. We have some common ground, though I still can't agree with many of your points.

"I say welcome to people that want to become American!"
Like the truck driver in the OP? Or doesn't he cut the mustard? It seems you have a very personal take on this.

"America developed specifically from English colonies, in which other languages (primarily German) were distinctly minority. The founders were speakers of English, not "a huge mixture of peoples who spoke different languages"."
This either glosses over a host of "unpleasant truths", or maybe you need a history lesson. For starters, before English or any other European language invaded there was Cherokee, Navajo, Dakota, Apache, Choctaw and many other native languages, now steamrollered out of existence. How can you - a descendant of immigrants - speak for the soul of the continent? The US you are talking about is a recent creation.

And you are wrong in asserting that "America developed specifically from English colonies". Dutch, French and Spanish colonies were in place well before the English arrived, and Germans also made up significant numbers along with many other early European imports. There were indeed a huge number of "founding" languages, but English won the 'language war'.

"You speak of the end of the nation-state as a certain unavoidable future event"
I think the end of the nation state is inevitable only if mankind continues to exist along present lines for a few millenia more. The fact is, (and here perhaps we agree!) that we will probably destroy ourselves before we reach that state. But I didn't say I like the idea of 'one world, one language' - just that it's the likely result of evolution, given enough time.

[rusmeister]

[Marcoregano]

Admittedly this is getting a bit off topic, but...

[rusmeister]

[parrothead]

[Marcoregano]

[thelmadatter]

I agree that the US has a right to impose language requirements on those who perform certain jobs. The trucker in question had to pass a test to get his CDL license... that is a federal requirement to indicate that he had certain skills to drive a rig on US roads.

Something similar should be done for the English language requirement. A trucker's English ability should be determined when s/he gets (or renews) his/her license. This way, whether or not a driver is proficient or not under the law is not up to the individual officer's judgement, and not subject to abuse.

My guess as to why this is NOT done is that the feds dont want the expense of verbal/aural language testing.

[parrothead]

It's just not practical. A. The U.S. has NO OFFICIAL language. B. Who determines the requisit level of English? How is it determined? What are you going to do, set a paper test in front of a truck driver to test his reading comprehension (more important if you are driving a truck IMO). You better do the same for the rest of the populace. I'd love to see how many native speakers fail an English test. By the way, in the U.S. the deaf can drive as well. I wonder if the Alabama trooper would have had a problem with that.

Different English is spoken all over the U.S. It is a darn big country. In the past, when I visited the deep south of the U.S., I occasionally had to ask for clarification when speaking to people there. I totally feel for the Spanish speaking truck driver that this thread refers to. He did nothing wrong, was randomly pulled over, and then ticketed for having sub-par English - as determined by a state trooper, not a certified tester of English.

[Marcoregano]

A fine summation parrothead and I think that just about wraps it up. BTW, where's your avitar pic from? Let me guess...Croatia? (That is a wild guess).

[jillford64]

[parrothead]

[Prof.Gringo]

I have been reading all of the replies and comments. I think that any country has a right to impose it's laws and to a lesser extent, language upon people who are living there for any amount of time. Here in Mexico, the immigration officials at the main office can't even speak English. Now I think that's going too far.

I don't really care if immigrants to the US can or can't speak English after 5 or even 20 years. I mean, why should they? They can do almost everything in Spanish (or whatever language). The US bends over backwards to help people learn English with free ESL classes. When they don't the US goes out of it's way to accommodate their refusal or inability to learn English. What other countries do that? If you don't need English for your job and most of your contact is with fellow Spanish speakers why even bother to try?

English is the international language of transportation. It is used in maritime and aviation all over the world. Ship's crews and commercial aviation crews must be able to communicate in English. That's an international requirement.

The easiest way to fix this problem would is to evaluate potential commercial drivers English ability during the license testing process and eliminate the need to have the police act as language enforcers. It is ridiculous to have the police writing $500 tickets to truckers based on what each cop thinks is a sufficient level of English.

[rusmeister]