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redeyes
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254
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 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: |
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I have to be honest here -- what an unbelievably pretentious thread -- and shadowfax wins top "intellectual flautlence" gold stars especially! ( Stephen Jones, on the other hand, has offered sterling advice on the board repeatedly, and isn't under the "pretentious category" in my book at least)
Blimey, I am certainly 100 percent pro intellectual debate -- but over EFL related issues? Get real! We teach the present continuous and the past simple etc, and whilst our "EFL MA theory darlings", David Nunan, the Willis's, Chomsky, Skinner, Krashen, Eugene Winters,Halliday et al may be fascinating theorists -- Baudrillard, Derrida, Rousseau, Montaigne, Heraclitus, Plotinus they are NOT.
Give it a break boys -- you have to teach the past perfect tomorrow, not Heidegger's concept of Dasein,Heraclitus' contribution to process philosophy or Wittgenstein's Tractatus.
I am considering a move to Saudi -- I hope you lot don't stab each other in the back in the staffroom canteen over such matters such as La Rochefoucauld's temporal influence on Guy Debord's attitude to detournemont and appropriation of Hegel etc. ....
Mind you , where I am now, teacher's stab each other in the back and bitch about each other's use of Headway vs Interchange etc....   |
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redeyes
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Shake n bake, I just PM'd you, hope that's ok. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: I never let school interfere with my education. |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Knowledge can be taught, but wisdom, I think, can only be won - and the price is often fairly steep. Regards,
John |
"Wisdom has built a house for herself, and setup seven pillars..." (Prov. 9:1-6).
John, what do you mean by wisdom? And how does anyone become wise?
Some people think that wisdom is not attainable but is a gift from God.
And is it possible to gain wisdom without knowledge?
Solomon asked God only for wisdom and knowledge, in order that he might rule the people of God.
The job market of the 21st century, need graduates who are like 'technicians' who can manage things based on information technology, internet, and mathematics. The specialities of liberal arts and humanities are not important as other specialties in the modern age! |
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redeyes
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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007 wrote --
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| "The job market of the 21st century, need graduates who are like 'technicians' who can manage things based on information technology, internet, and mathematics. The specialities of liberal arts and humanities are not important as other specialties in the modern age!" |
Well, yes 007, you are right to a large degree -- but don't overlook the sense of conscience and ethics that students learn on humanities courses -- without that, with just "cold" courses such as business, maths, physics, etc -- you end up with one sided students, who often have little or no insight into cycles of history,political shenanigans and state craft/cunning,no concepts of other nation's concepts of morality, ethical conduct etc -- in fact, 007, precisley the kinds of people who are profoundly ignorant of the motivations behind the bombing of innocents in Palestine, Iraq etc -- students who have no idea how to deconstruct political cunning etc.
Not good to turn out one dimensional people.
I am not trying to put down maths/physics/engineering students, many of whom have far far more common sense than the dreaming humanities students, some of whom are just so inefectual,impractical, and so unready for the harshness of life -- but in my experience, the humanities students have an essential spark of neccesary insight too. Don't discount them. The world needs them as much as the engineers.
Last edited by redeyes on Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well, just to remind you that without the help of IT technicians, mathematicians, and engineers, it would be not possible for you to participate in this forum or write your essay using a computer!
| redeyes wrote: |
| Well, yes 007, you are right to a large degree -- but don't overlook the sense of conscience and ethics that students learn on humanities courses -- without that, with just "cold" courses such as business, maths, physics, etc -- you end up with one sided students, who often have little or no insight into cycles of history,political shenanigans and state craft/cunning,no concepts of other nation's concepts of morality, ethical conduct etc -- in fact, 007, precisley the kinds of people who are profoundly ignorant of the motivations behind the bombing of innocents in Palestine, Iraq etc -- students who have no idea how to deconstruct political cunning etc. |
Well, there is no such one sided students, ethics and other communication skills are taught in engineering courses, but are not equal in weight as the core modules.
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| Don't discount them. The world needs them as much as the engineers. |
Really?
Well, let me give you an example of a politician, Uncle Sam, who received a Bachelor's degree in history. Do you think the ethics which he got in his studies helped him to understand the concept of morality of other cultures, or helped him to understand the cycles of history in the ME?
Last edited by 007 on Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shadowfax
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 212
Location: Pocket Universe 935500921223097532957092196
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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So redeyes is buddies with Jones and thinks I'm pretentious. That's fine. But that he blurts it out with no proof or explication rates him as a witless thug in my book.
That we should sit around talking about how to teach the present perfect all day (like newbies just stepped out of a TEFL course), and never mention anything he thinks irrelevant, smacks of a mindless would-be despot who would bore us all to death.
Any discipline can have implications for the teacher in Saudi or elsewhere;
so long as it is directed to the debate in progress.
Last edited by shadowfax on Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:42 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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redeyes
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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a witless thug? That sounds fun.  |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, it seems the liberal arts and humanities students are lacking ethics and morality! And I will put this in my engineering book of history! |
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redeyes
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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-- edited by redeyes
Last edited by redeyes on Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:58 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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shadowfax
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 212
Location: Pocket Universe 935500921223097532957092196
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm quite enjoying being a pretentious second rate Blackadder impersonator at the moment. |
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shadowfax
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 212
Location: Pocket Universe 935500921223097532957092196
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm quite enjoying being a pretentious second rate Blackadder impersonator with a bowel disorder at the moment. |
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redeyes
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Shadow, that sounds fun too -- in fact, the present thread is taking quite a surreal turn i'd say....which is most likely far more enjoyable imho than the past perfect! 
Shadow, take my post regarding you with a pinch of salt ! |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| redeyes wrote: |
| Now, who is going to take men like Bush, Blair and others to task -- the physics majors -- or the humanities students? |
Neither!
It is the guerrilla like Taliban and Hezbollah who will take them to task.
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| The humanities students will know very well the theorists men like Blair/Bush will have studied -- and will tear him down to size using the same strategies! The engineering students haven't read thier macchiavelli, Straussian theory, Mearshemier, Sun Tzu etc ! Wake up man! |
Well I feel asleep when I hear the above argument!
The engineering students don't waste time with theory and poetry! They are concerned more with technicalities such as how to use Air-missiles to tear the enemies down to size!
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| I know very well the value of the engineers, the physicists -- you however, clearly don't know the value of the humanities students,and are simply ( mis ) reading my post as a vacuous attack on science students. |
I am not attacking science students as person, I am only arguing that in this modern age it is technology and the Atomic bomb which decides and not poetry or history! |
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shadowfax
Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 212
Location: Pocket Universe 935500921223097532957092196
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Very noble of you, Sir. I shall undo that noose of hemp I had prepared and suspended from my ceiling lamp. 
Last edited by shadowfax on Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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redeyes
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well 007, I'd love to debate more -- but I honestly think that our combined posts will see the thread pulled. 
Nice one, Shadow, and yes,truth be kown, I'd far, far rather discuss Hegelian dialectics than the third conditional; La Rochefoucauld than the definite article; Plotinus and the Skeptics than indirect relative clauses -- so we have no argument at all sir ! 
Last edited by redeyes on Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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