Job Discussion Forums

[Glenski]

[fat_chris]

[Mosley]

Glenski, Glenski...

I suspect you know very well that what I meant was those WITH EFL experience in Japan, but who happen to be outside the country when they apply for a job are at a disadvantage. Picture this scenario:

A recruiting agent for a major eikaiwa is in a N. American city. He's just wrapping things up when he realizes he still has one position left to fill. There are only two applicants left: one is 27(even worse if he's 37 or 47...but we'll ignore that for the moment) with several years experience teaching and living in Japan. The other is 22, wide-eyed and just out of university. Guess who gets the job? That's right...why take on the heartache of someone who "knows the score" when there's a younger newbie to take on to mold?

For a guy who's been around for a while, Glenski, you seem to be impervious to polite & indirect Japan-speak. To wit: JET states that JETs(esp. ALTs) be, "in principle", under 40 at time of application. Translation:"If you're 39 or older at time of application, you're pretty well SOL."

Ever been on JET, Glenski? I have(for 3 yrs.) and I can affirm that 40ish JETs are as common as cheese pizza pies at a formal enkai.

You seem to use a "because-I-say-so" approach to insisting eikaiwas/dispatch cos. don't really discriminate against older and/or experienced FTs. That flies in the face of evidence, anecdotal & otherwise, that that is NOT true. Compare the common occurrence of older and/or experienced EFLers in Japan to that of S. Korea/China & you'll see there's no comparison. For the record, here's my EFL experience overseas: Japan: 5 yrs. Korea: 3 yrs. China: 10 mos.

Regular posters know you, Glenski, as a long timer who's often offered solid, "nuts & bolts" advice about practical matters. But your 'rose-coloured glasses' approach does a disservice to those seeking advice as to how things really are. Experienced teachers often find themselves at a comparative disadvantage and, ironically, unlike 15-odd yrs. ago, most non-JET contracts are not all that great a deal anyhow.

[budgie]

I was rejected by AEON too; got picked up by another of the big 4. Normal dips and swings.

There are a lot of factors that go into selection. Anyone with the qualifications can get to the interviews/demo lessons but after that it's down to personality, performance, normal interview skills and most of all whether you're their 'type'. Just like any other service industry job.

Remember these centers don't 'teach' per se, they instead push a product: their brand of McEnglish (would you like fries with that?). Some have even taken to calling their students 'customers'. So like any other service provider (hotels, airlines and so on) you have to fit the character to be on the front line delivering that sevice.

In My case I think AEON saw my experience and judged I was a flight risk. They were right too. If I couldn't get the location I'd have used them for a visa and bolted.

Finally it's subjective. We can't be liked by everyone and maybe the interviewer just saw someone 'better'...

[seklarwia]

[Glenski]

[Mosley]

Glenski:
Not a bad reply. I only take exception to two points:

(1) The "sarcastic crap" bit - not so. I can be hard hitting to make a point but that's the way she goes. BTW, in re-reading my previous post, is anyone under the impression that I'm a JET NOW(I wish!)? Look, when the JET website discourages over-40s from applying, is it any wonder that few over-40s apply, let alone get accepted?

I had to leave JET due to the 3 yr. limit rule(at the time, that was not subject to negotiation, at least not for ALTs). I was 41. I was EASILY the oldest JET in my prefecture. In my first yr., I went to a tri-prefectural conference that was attended by ALL ALTs. Guess what? I was EASILY the oldest JET there. Near the end of my 1st yr., I went to the renewers' conference-roughly 1000 JETs in attendance. Guess what? As if guided by an "invisible hand"(apologies to A. Smith), the old 'uns found each other at the social function-about a half-dozen of us! ONE was older than I-I could've hugged him!

So, no, Glenski, I never met all "6000" JETs at one time. Maybe all the middle-aged ones during my time were hoarded & hidden from my view(OK, THAT'S sarcasm). Moreover, during my eikaiwa slavery time, I reckon those 3 older ones than I (spread out between 2 prefs.)were tokens to deflect suspicions that such outfits tend not to employ the older/experienced set(amongst roughly 200 FTs).

(2) I NEVER said one would never find a 55-yr. old teaching EFL in Japan. But I maintain(and I maintain that comparisons ARE relevant) that it's relatively rare to find over-40s teaching EFL in Japan compared to other E. Asian jurisdictions.

I'm sure I'd like you in person, Glenski. If karma allows it, maybe we'll meet up in a yakitori-ya someday.

Technical point, re: budgie & the "big 4": I thought it was the "big 3", i.e., hasn't NOVA(rightfully so) been belly up for 1.5 yrs.?

[Apsara]

No, although Nova started bankruptcy proceedings it was very soon bought out and started up again with the same name, same logo and everything. It has a couple of hundred schools and is continuing- it even claims it has turned a profit in the last few months, although from the accounts I have read it is an even worse place to work now than it used to be.

[RollingStone]

One thing that struck me reading these responses is just the oddity of discussing eikaiwa employment in terms of strategies and biases etc. What is odd is that no one, I am sure, were they presented with the same level of employment in their home country (not necessarily ESL, but just the same entry-level, mac-job) would give a rats 8ss about who gets hired and why. I wouldnt dream of applying for this level of employment in my country, let alone wonder about hiring processes. I dont even have anything further to add to that, just find the situation a bit bizarre (specially since Im the OP! :p).
The allure of living in Japan must be pretty strong, because this employment sure doesnt warrant this level of analysis, and I am somewhat amazed I began it all! Its kinda like whining being turned down by walmart -- so, whats the bad news?

Ideally, since I still seem to have a -on for Japan (will be heading there next month actually), the best deal would be to find more suitable employment, something I would do anywhere. But thats another discussion.

EDIT: for what its worth this isnt meant in any snarky sense, or to put down the eikaiwa employables. Im sure most will totally agree with what im saying.

[Mosley]

RS: A most curious post.

IMHO, you're absolutely right: Just because Japan is so "great", that doesn't jusify the acceptance of most non-JET contracts.

On the other hand, yeah..."bizarre"... YOU are the one that got turned down by AEON & wondered why?

In any case, as so many agree, even experienced Westerners get turned down for EFL McJobs. So, if you have no EFL experience, have never lived in Japan & don't speak the lingo(I assume), you nonetheless expect to show up on a tourist visa & a week or two later expect to land some superlative job?! More likely you'll end up working part-time for Gaba and living in a gaijin house...and an AEON contract will start looking mighty fine!

A FAR better option would be to try to get on JET. The downside is, even if you're accepted, you wouldn't start till summer of 2010.

[starteacher]

[budgie]

[cvmurrieta]