Job Discussion Forums

[Guy Courchesne]

Phil I'm still curious about what brings you to your opinion. Let me ask you this...did you ever get feedback from students that lazed out and disappeared? What they said about why they left?

Back when I was managing classes similar to Marphil, I always found it difficult to get accurate feedback from students, about their teacher in particular. That dovetails nicely with something I believe of Mexicans in that I don't see a lot of willingness to speak up and complain about shoddy service (your CFE experience is a good example).

You've told me a lot about how you felt about teaching...what was the feedback you got and how does that fit into what you're saying now?

[Phil_K]

First of all, I know I'm not the best teacher in the world, although a knowledgable one. I think your observation about Mexicans not speaking up hits the nail right one the head. I think that when I have received direct negative feedback from my own classes it's because I've asked directly for it, and successfully corrected the situation. This would fit in with what I say about a motivated student. I think that student would be pleased to have a knowledgeable, native teacher and he would be using that teacher's knowledge to expand his own, just as a university student has the thirst to learn, and uses all the resources at his disposal. If he were unhappy with the direction the class was taking, he would speak up and the teacher would try to change the class. Also, sometimes it is difficult to give a good course because the student's don't even know what they want. A motivated student would. None of this happens! I can't give you specific complaints because I don't think I've ever received one! And those that leave the class, fine. They don't interest me. I'd rather start with a class of 8 and wind up with a class of 2 people who make the effort.

A great thing about my new project is that my clients won't be Mexican.

[Guy Courchesne]

[dixie]

The thing I find interesting about this thread is that the students who are forced to take English to secure their job don't complete the class, but they still have a job.

So...if you don't make a lot of money, if climbing the ladder means more hours but not necessarily more pay, if you've traveled an hour (or more) to work then worked 12 hours and now face at least an hour in travel time home...why would you complete the course? There is really no benefit to the employee and obviously the threats are empty.

[geaaronson]

This is an interesting message thread and one I wish I had encountered some time ago. I find myself discussing these same issues with my colleagues here in the southern part of Mexico.
Looking back over my Business English days in DF I am struck by how valid many of your points are. I do recall the occasional feedback from students and usually appreciated them.
I distinctly remember one problem student with whom Phil K is familiar with, a lawyer at a bank who was extremely surly and cold my first week of private instruction with him. We would chitchat as it was a conversation class and the previous teacher warned me that the student did not particularly like the teacher hogging the conversation so I would ask him personal questions to get the conversation going. That didn�t work. He finally released his pent up frustration and told me in no uncertain terms he wasn�t interested in a social hour of small talk.
I asked him point blank what he wanted. He told me his principal interest was in understanding all the legal terms that a British colleague in London used. As I had already developed lesson plans using Barron�s DICTIONARY OF LEGAL TERMS (a book I strongly recommend if teaching lawyers), I just filled the class hour with legal and economic definitions. They were the most boring lectures I have ever given but he could not have been happier.
I cut the course short when I got another class that overlapped. Two students wanted conversational English. Actually, only one was desperate for it, the other was her friend and wanted to help her out.
The essential student could not make up her mind as to what she wanted. The first day she spent most of the time talking about the fact that her friend had just been admitted into a MBA program and she had been rejected. I asked her if she wanted preparation to take the entrance exam over. No. Okay so what do you want? She wouldn�t or couldn�t tell me. As I couldn�t find out from her what she wanted, I queried her friend. He said she definitely wanted to be able to make verbal presentations in front of a group, and suggested that I give her a topic to prepare for the class. So that�s what I did. I gave her the assignment of picking something she wanted to talk about. She failed to show up for the next class. Finally after a week, the recruiter told me that she had decided to jump ship and wanted someone with a British accent.
Interestingly she had come to us after spending about 2 months with another teacher with whom she was also disatisfied.
My best students are those that know exactly why they are in the class and are able to express that. I had an extremely bright student who had just graduated from UNAM�s computer program. He had interviewed with Microsoft in his senior year and did not get hired. He had bumbled the English interview. So it was very clear what his goal was. Pemex hired him in December.
Another was a technical engineer who wanted to work for PEMEX. There was an English exam to Pemex. We had English conversation for a year.
These were all highly motivated students who did their assignments and made every effort to come to class.
Yes, there were many duds. Usually I could spot them immediately in the first interview. I still made myself available for those that I didn�t think would make it. Several were not at the conversational level and balked at doing grammar assignments. They were just too unrealistic in trying to converse well at their undeveloped level.

[Phil_K]

[Guy Courchesne]

I thought that student sounded familiar...

I had a single class with him, and took the opportunity to gather some feedback - which you'll remember I reported to you Phil. We had a good class - though I don't remember what we'd covered.

He reported that he wasn't happy with the classes though I don't remember exactly what it was he was unhappy about. Phil, do you remember what you said to me when I reported the feedback to you?

[Phil_K]

No idea. Water under the bridge. I'm probably digging my own grave here! (Guy PMed the answer - back to the original discussion! )

[geaaronson]

Guy

Now you`ve got me interested. What was he unhappy about if I may ask. Was he unhappy about all the teachers Phil K supplied, just you, including me or what? Again, I am curious as I am always curious as to how students perceive me.
It`s a bit of an issue here at the school I am teaching at. I know I am getting poor marks in the category of new technology, ie. my nonusage of overhead projectors and CD players. My worst marks are on these and I believe it`s dragging the rest of my marks down a small bit as well.
You can always pm me.