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mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
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 Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I went to a second interview yesterday for a management position. When I got there they told me the positions have been filled and they instead offered me the opportunity to start in sales at minimum wage. Needless to say the interview was brief.
Another company has been blowing smoke up my ass for weeks about a management training program with an attractive salary for starters. That program has since changed. Now they say that I can start in sales instead with a far lower draw against commission. |
So that's where the Chinese recruiters learned about 'bait and switch'.
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tin man
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| bait and switch is exactly what I thought. The second company is trying to sugarcoat things telling me that I can make more money on commission than salary. |
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Gilka
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, there are a LOT of those scams in this economy. Anyone who calls you the day after you send your CV in, super excited to set up an interview, is probably scamming you. Unless you're Steve Jobs. |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mike w wrote: |
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I went to a second interview yesterday for a management position. When I got there they told me the positions have been filled and they instead offered me the opportunity to start in sales at minimum wage. Needless to say the interview was brief.
Another company has been blowing smoke up my ass for weeks about a management training program with an attractive salary for starters. That program has since changed. Now they say that I can start in sales instead with a far lower draw against commission. |
So that's where the Chinese recruiters learned about 'bait and switch'.
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This is also typical, beware of the other scams where you must provide copies of transcripts and original degree documents and told "Sorry No openings right now."
Your documents are copied, the Font is identified and your name and info is removed, another person takes your place with a degree in their name and official looking transcripts.
These are sold on the market as templates. |
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A'Moo
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: a supermarket that sells cheese
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Teaching in China 2010: Be careful |
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| LeopoldBloom wrote: |
This is just a word to the wise for those considering teaching in China today who may have done it years ago. I taught in China ten years ago, then again five years ago, and returned again last year. So much has changed-- anyone who's been there will tell you that-- and a lot of those changes have been to the disadvantage to teachers.
You must understand that as a teacher in China today you have no rights to take your employer on about pay issues or whatever may come up between the two of you. None, zero, zilch, nada. You generally have the right to leave the country if you are unhappy but that's it. Keep that in mind. Chinese employers are well aware of the power they have and a great many universities and colleges routinely pay very late and/or skip on certain pay issues if they can satisfactorily rationalize that for themselves.
I'm speaking from first-hand experience at a university and talking with all others working at them. Prior to 2006 teachers still had a lot of power in unhappy situations because they could fairly easily find work at a new school. Not so today. Almost all Chinese employers require a recommendation from your last employer to hire you. Think about this: it's a system that says the Chinese employer is always right and honest which is hardly true and even if it were; any employer given so much power would tend to become less right and honest. Just human nature.
Based on the current situation I would strongly recommend potential teachers steer clear of any teaching in China post. Whether you're from America, Europe or wherever it be, you're probably from a country where people have toiled for one hundred years or more for worker's rights. Don't come to China to teach today because you'll be giving all those rights up. |
Always a tad weary of those who have "been here for years/been here various times/taught for years"and-
have a post count of 10 after joining this site last week. |
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tin man
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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A uni has prepared my docs for the visa.
I am still in the interview process in the USA for sales and have not made a firm decision either way but I hope to come to a final decision this week. I have an offer in the USA but I asked for more money and meeting with senior management on Tuesday. I also am considering a possible sales opp in Latin America, in an area where I prefer to live and speak the language.
I am alarmed after reading these reports on teaching. From what I read, these uni's cannot be trusted.
Is there anyway to communicate these concerns with the uni before going? Would they pay for the ticket upfront if I demanded they did so or I told them due to economic conditions, I cannot afford to pay for the ticket?
I feel the pay for teaching is peanuts but I find other reasons to go appealing. Yet, I don't want to get screwed either. |
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mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Is there anyway to communicate these concerns with the uni before going? |
How would you know their answers, IF you get any, are trustworthy?
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| Would they pay for the ticket upfront if I demanded they did so or I told them due to economic conditions, I cannot afford to pay for the ticket? |
No |
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tin man
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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When I first applied, I had no idea that teachers were constantly getting screwed in China.
I knew that the living and working conditions may not be ideal but I was not aware that uni's especially did not honor contracts. Not paying for the plane ticket, paying salaries late and so forth is unacceptable to this reader. |
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tin man
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The uni only gave me one teacher reference and he was not from an English speaking country. I suppose that I can ask for more references. |
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mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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The problem really is sorting out the wheat from the chaff.
It is true that there are plenty of horror stories, but remember that there are also plenty of FT's who will tell you that they don't have major problems with salary and air ticket at the school / university they are at.
When I was teaching at universities and schools, I never had any problems with visas, FEC, salary, air ticket, or accommodation. Other niggling problems I had, but not in the five main areas.
Or was I just lucky? |
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tin man
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Mike,
I think you are right. I am sure that there are bad apples (dishonest uni's). But the question I have is what is the percentage that are rotten?
I would be furious if I got screwed. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| tin man wrote: |
| I feel the pay for teaching is peanuts but I find other reasons to go appealing. Yet, I don't want to get screwed either. |
The pay is peanuts, its just quite a bit higher than the averaage Chinese person earns. Look, I originally moved from Australia where I was earning $52k a year, to working in a kinder earning roughly �500 a month. The salary is not the reason to come to China. Get that out of your mind, since you're not a qualified teacher with loads of experience. (neither am I)
I came to China for multiple reasons... mostly wrong.. haha... my preconceptions of the country were completely messed up. (more in line with Japan, than anywhere else.  )
However I'm coming back to China, because I love Chinese women, I love the spicy food, I love the standard of living you can have on 5k rmb, I enjoy the chinese style of nightlife, I enjoy the attention, and I have met very few chinese people I genuinely didn't like. I have also found out that I enjoy teaching.. *Gosh*. Money doesn't factor in except to provide me with the standard of living i want while living here.
As for getting screwed, thats a chance regardless of what you decide to do. There are no safe bets outside of working in a western business profession and even then there are risks. With China, you just have to be careful. No different to any working situation IMO.
Ultimately you will not know what its like until you've come and stayed for a while. People here can describe their own experiences and give advice, but thats their experiences. You will find things very different.
And in all likelihood, you will get screwed at some stage with regards to management. Everyone does at some stage. The level of damage really depends on how you handle it. I got screwed (Do a search for Kids Castle Xi'an if you want details), and managed fairly well with it in the end. My friends have gotten screwed, and yet stayed on to have happy lives. Its going to be different for everyone. |
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tin man
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Cormac,
Well balanced and a great post. I think you are spot on as they say in your neck of the woods. I especially like the part about the Chinese women being single myself. 
I also agree that money isn't everything and if one can truly live well on 5000 than I am ok with that.
I used to be a "yuppie" and earned a very nice income, however that is no longer the case. Now I need to choose the next path in the journey. |
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tin man
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I also think that a uni would be less likely to screw with a teacher they liked. I suppose if they still did and you threaten to leave, then they would make it right if they wanted you to stay on. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| tin man wrote: |
Cormac,
Well balanced and a great post. I think you are spot on as they say in your neck of the woods. I especially like the part about the Chinese women being single myself.
I also agree that money isn't everything and if one can truly live well on 5000 than I am ok with that.
I used to be a "yuppie" and earned a very nice income, however that is no longer the case. Now I need to choose the next path in the journey. |
Tin man, be careful with Chinese women.. In many ways the potential for risk are as high with them as with the schools... Lovely creatures, but some are...well.. complicated. Again, wait until you're in China a while before you make any firm assessments. |
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