Job Discussion Forums

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

quick translation from multiple Indonesian friends:

1. you must be qualified, competent, and knowledgeable. u have to be healthy body and mind. u have to uphold national standards of education.

2. these are the qualifications:
a. must have a BA in the subject area to be taught when teaching in the formal section k-12.
b. doctorate degree...... some disagreement about the function/role this person plays,
c. u must have knowledge in the area that u are teaching in both formal and non-formal schools...... ex. computer graphics, design, languages, etc. this is not limited to teaching english nor does it say that u need a BA.

3. you must be a native speaker of the language that u are teaching and u must have a certificate in teaching this language, such as CELTA/TRINITY or equilivant. again it doesnt specifically state the need to have a BA, just a certificate.

i didnt print out the entire regulation, just 1,2, and 3 so perhaps this info is imcomplete. however, according to my friends, u do not need a BA in linguistics, english or TESOL, except in nationalplus and international schools. maybe SD has information that i missed. Also it seems business as usualy for language with schools with the exception that teachers will needed to have a recognized esl certificate such as CELTA or Trinity.

if any of this is incorrect or there is information that i dont have, please let me know.

scooby doo · Joined: 30 Oct 2009 Posts: 48

It's a pity your friends don't work at Diknas Crying or Very sad

sta · Joined: 11 Oct 2010 Posts: 5

Wow.. never have I read something before that has completely turned my world upside down in such a short time. I was planning to take my CELTA course in Feb and move to Indonesia after this.. now there is an obstacle in my way that seems unclear what its purpose is. The most frustrating thing is that I don't even know if it will or won't effect me. Studying for another 3 years to fulfill their requirements is completely out of the question.
In-case your wondering, I graduated in Business Studies which means I would not be unable to teach in the eyes of Diknas, regardless of experience or ability. Scooby Doo posted an extremely informative post that I think summed up and clarified the main points. From what I have gathered, the new regulations will recommend the immigration department to reject my kitas and all similar applications from a non language based BA.

I think a general consensus from these posts is that having a BA in English or linguistics does not mean that you will be good teacher. So if somebody, like myself, wants to alter their career path to become a teacher in Indonesia, then they must go back to University and spend a few years and invest a few thousand to get a qualification that is debatable whether it will even help them become a better teacher.. great.

I can't help but feel disheartened. Indonesia is where I have my heart set on teaching because of personal reasons. I'm still going to continue with my plans and hope for the best, but without the personal reasons drawing me there, I would have boycotted the idea of coming to Indonesia.

I really empathise with darkcity as its the same position i'm in but worse as he took the CELTA without knowing about the new regulations. Also fladude's post about all his qualifications and experience in the US, and being 'unqualified' in the eyes Diknas to get an ESL job in Indonesia. I find this completely ridiculous.

So I guess nothing more can be said that hasn't already. I will have to wait and see how it all turns out and hope for the best. Thanks to everyone on here that has shared their knowledge.. at least now I am going into the situation informed.

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

@ sta

1. fladude is qualified in a couple of the more liberal states in terms of requirements for teacher qualifications.

2. if u read the new regulations, who knows if they will ever be followed, they apply to the formal sector only. as it reads now, SD posts about needing a degree in linguistics or English would apply only to those teachers wanting to teach in the formal sector, ie international or nationalplus schools. your CELTA would be enough for you to teach at language schools........ informal sector. if u look at the recent ads here on dave's, u will see that all the language schools have dropped that part of their ad that stated a requirement was a degree in english, english literature, or linguistics. some have kept a requirement of a BA (any subject) where others have completely dropped the need of a BA, simply stating that a CELTA/TRINITY or equilivant is necessary.

the new regulations are ambigious and causing a lot of confusion and dont seem to be implemented across the board. in translating them, it appears that only teachers working in the formal sector need a BA and in the subject they are teaching. informal language teachers only need a certification in the language they are teaching and to be native speakers.

i encourage you to follow your dreams. take your CELTA and come on over, if u were planning to teach at a language school. if u have a specific school in mind, why not write that school telling them that u plan to take the CELTA and ask them if your would be able to work there. i think u will be ok

good luck

drandreasbrown · Joined: 06 Nov 2008 Posts: 34

I worked in Indonesia for 4 and half years as an ESL teacher, and after a break, I am (was?) looking to return. I have just been refused an interview with TBI on the basis of the immigration law. TBI is of course just seeking to enforce the apparent interpretation of the law, and I think it's commendable that they are doing so.

I just wanted to say that this law is probably going to stop most of not all new teachers considering Indonesia as a teaching destination. The pool of potential candidates who have literature degrees, and ESL qualifications, and want to work in Indonesia must be tiny. I hope it is adjusted or scrapped soon, because it's going to be very counter-productive.

drandreasbrown · Joined: 06 Nov 2008 Posts: 34

P.s. and just in case anyone is wondering if I'm saying they should let anyone in, I'm not. I have a double honours degree and a CELTA.

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

did they say what their interpretation of the immigration laws are?
thanks

drandreasbrown · Joined: 06 Nov 2008 Posts: 34

They didn't say, but I'm sure you know that not only is the law in general open to intepretation, that it is even more so in Indonesia than many places. I just posted this information to show that this law is having an effect in stopping teachers being hired, and should it be followed in this way throughout the ESL industry in Indonesia, I just can't see many teachers going their. I have met lots of ESL teachers from a variety of backgrounds, and only *2* had English degrees. Furthermore, one of these wrote his thesis on narrative continuities in Dickens, and the other wrote his on Nostromo, which, while interesting (well, the Nostromo one anyway, I can't stand Dickens), is hardly relevant to ESL work.

So in short, as I suggested before, the law seems to be poorly-written, illogical, and counter-productive. Plus, it's annoying personally because I can't go back to Indo, and I don't feel like getting a third degree haha.

drandreasbrown · Joined: 06 Nov 2008 Posts: 34

...on a related note, how do they establish the degree was in English? In Australia such a degree would be in the Faculty of Arts, and so the degree would be an Arts degree. We don't 'do' majors here, and so technically there is no such thing as an English degree. As someone, I forget who, said above, it seems to be a case of them applying parochial Indonesian educational standards to international ones in a totally inappropriate fashion. Apologies to all for any hint of ranting, but really...

travelNteach · Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 222

thanks for taking the time to respond. i was hoping that they would specifically mention the immigration requirement that u didnt fulfill. i agree with your thoughts on having an "english" degree. perhaps they think that having a degree in literature will make u better at explaining grammar.

try another school in indonesia. u may have better luck. if i hear of anything i will pm u.

drandreasbrown · Joined: 06 Nov 2008 Posts: 34

I would appreciate any inside info you could give me TnT, do pm me if something comes up. Also, having taught future perfect continuous sucessfully, I'm pretty confident about my ability to teach grammar, my contempt for Jane Austen aside.

*rant over and out...*

Grahame · Joined: 14 Dec 2010 Posts: 11

Hi, I'm about to head back up to Jkt for a CELTA with TBI. This thread is of interest as I may look for work afterwards in Indonesia (as I have spent a lot of time there over the last 20 years).

But ... I don't have a degree per se. I have a tertiary (3yr) diploma, a grad dip (English) and am halfway through a masters in international development. But I don't have a degree.

If these new regs only affect new teachers what is the likelihood of me being tripped up by them?

TIA,
Grahame

Durian Tango · Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Posts: 65 Location: HCMC

Grahame - I think the grad dip in English may certainly come in handy as we continue to watch how DIKNAS deals with applications over time. At the moment, from what I've seen, they get pretty hung up on the word 'degree' though. That's what they want - a degree. They don't seem to go for anything worded otherwise.

Getting the CELTA is definitely a good decision though.

Grahame · Joined: 14 Dec 2010 Posts: 11

Thanks for that DT. I ask because I can imagine some bureaucrat saying "degree, degree, what is your degree? you do not have a degree. you cannot work here".

To which I may reply "for what purpose is it important that I have a degree?" Most answers may be that a grad dip and half a masters 'beats' a degree. But that may not be how the bureaucrat sees it.

Thanks again.
Grahame

fladude · Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 432