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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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 Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| redsnapper wrote: |
| Assuming that a university accepts your online degrees. I think the next question would be why did you go and get a 2nd Masters Degree rather than go onto the next level and earn a Doctoral degree. I personally don't see any advantage of having two Masters degrees or two Bachelors degrees.. |
Because my first MA was from Spain it's created lots of problems.
1. Many people have a hard time believing that it was all done in English, even though all 16 courses and the thesis were.
2. Getting transcripts is an ABSOLUTE nightmare
3. Apostillised copies of my MA cost about $700 PER COPY and can take 3 to 9 months.
4. Also I have no desire to get a PhD. I know some people do, others don't. There's nothing wrong with that.
My first MA is in TEFL and my second MA will be in Educational Admin. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Next, you claim that top MBA programs and other degree programs from top Ivy League schools are online. |
Ivy League schools offer an extensive selection of online degrees. Columbia University probably offers the most, but other Ivies have them, too. Google would be a better source here than your brother. As for MBAs from the Ivy Leagues, I do not know, and I did not make that claim. I said:
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| Some of the best in the business offer degrees entirely online nowadays in quite a few majors. That includes the Ivy League. |
However, I do know that online MBAs are quite common from state schools and other reputable schools in the U.S. Two that come to mind are Duke University and Indiana University. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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By the way, here is an article from the Economist that I think sums up a lot about the current state of distance education and its usefulness. It is focused on MBAs, but much of it would apply to other degrees as well.
http://www.economist.com/node/15573278 |
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redsnapper
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Zero wrote: |
By the way, here is an article from the Economist that I think sums up a lot about the current state of distance education and its usefulness. It is focused on MBAs, but much of it would apply to other degrees as well.
http://www.economist.com/node/15573278 |
No need. You have expressed your view on the subject. I think there is still quite a bit of academia that has reservations about posting on a forum or exchanging a volley of emails to get a degree versus someone who takes the traditional path toward completing a higher level degree. You haven't cited a single reputable program that offers a PhD online--probably because none exist.
You mentioned Columbia university had an MBA program. So, I was curious and checked. They don't. None of the top US News and World Report Schools offer an online degree in anything. Schools like the University of Phoenix, Chapman College, and University of La Verne do but they are not reputable.
Further, last I checked this was an "ESL" cafe not an "MBA" cafe. MBA degrees are not research degrees anymore than MA in TESOL or EdD in anything is a research degree. All these programs are geared around the working professional not someone who is involved in academic research. I am still waiting for you to show me a reputable degree program that is geared toward academic research that is primarily earned online. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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There appear to be some "blended" programs that are being offered by "reputable" universities:
Master of Arts in Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages
by University of Southern California
The USC Rossier School of Education's MAT@USC TESOL blends a high quality Master of Arts in Teaching program with comprehensive TESOL training. Combining interactive online learning with field-based learning experiences, the MAT@USC TESOL supports effective English language teaching.
http://www.gradschools.com/search-programs/online-programs/tesol-education
Indiana University
"For individuals interested in teaching or training teachers of English as a Second/Foreign Language, there is an additional option to consider, namely, the EFL/ESL program via distance education (EPDE) certificate. The EPDE involves four online courses aligned with the Masters degree in Literacy Culture and Language Education."
http://site.educ.indiana.edu/Default.aspx?alias=site.educ.indiana.edu/langdist
Regards,
John |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:27 am Post subject: |
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No need. You have expressed your view on the subject. I think there is still quite a bit of academia that has reservations about posting on a forum or exchanging a volley of emails to get a degree versus someone who takes the traditional path toward completing a higher level degree. You haven't cited a single reputable program that offers a PhD online--probably because none exist.
You mentioned Columbia university had an MBA program. So, I was curious and checked. They don't. None of the top US News and World Report Schools offer an online degree in anything. Schools like the University of Phoenix, Chapman College, and University of La Verne do but they are not reputable.
Further, last I checked this was an "ESL" cafe not an "MBA" cafe. MBA degrees are not research degrees anymore than MA in TESOL or EdD in anything is a research degree. All these programs are geared around the working professional not someone who is involved in academic research. I am still waiting for you to show me a reputable degree program that is geared toward academic research that is primarily earned online. |
-Please quote where I said Columbia has an online MBA. That will not be possible, because I did not say that.
-I never said anything about earning PhDs online. I thought we were talking about distance learning at the master's degree level. I know next to nothing about PhDs, so I would be the wrong person to ask about that.
-To state that no top schools offer any online degrees is patently false. As one example, Columbia University, an Ivy League school, offers 13 different master's degrees online in fields such as actuarial science, bioethics and sustainability management. (No MBA.)
http://ce.columbia.edu/
| Quote: |
| All these programs are geared around the working professional not someone who is involved in academic research. I am still waiting for you to show me a reputable degree program that is geared toward academic research that is primarily earned online. |
In my opinion, yes, online graduate programs are better suited to working professionals than to people seeking a career in academia. If I wanted to obtain a tenure spot and do academic research, I would try to do an on-campus program, attend lots of conferences, network with lots of professors, etc.
I would note that in ESL/EFL, those kinds of positions are rare and, even at the university level, most jobs are for in-the-trenches instructors.[/quote] |
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redsnapper
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Zero wrote: |
-I never said anything about earning PhDs online. I thought we were talking about distance learning at the master's degree level. I know next to nothing about PhDs, so I would be the wrong person to ask about that. |
Did you bother to read the original COQ? I didn't see any distinction made for only MA online degrees.
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I have an online MA in TEFL from Spain and will be getting another MA from Australia, also done online. I'm interested in going to either Saudi, Oman, or the UAE in a couple years to teach. Are online degrees accepted by most employers in these countries? |
The question asks are online degrees accepted. I think a reasonable prudent person could draw the conclusion that doesn't mean only MA online degrees.
| Zero wrote: |
| Yes, but a person could omit a couple of years of work experience from the resume and bingo, the degree was done entirely in Australia. You quite enjoyed Sydney, Melbourne not so much, and wow, how about those kangaroos! |
I still am waiting of explanation as to why you think its OK to advise the OP to misrepresent and lie on their application. I really hope she takes your advice does it and then later when it comes back that you advised her, then she or her employer sues you under the intentional tort of misrepresentation.
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The essential elements of a claim of fraud by an intentional misrepresentation are:
1. The defendant must have made a representation as to a past or existing material fact;
2. The representation must have been false;
3. The defendant must have known that the representation was false when made or must have made the representation recklessly without knowing whether it was true or false;
4. The defendant must have made the representation with an intent to defraud the plaintiff, that is, he she must have made the representation for the purpose of inducing the plaintiff to rely upon it and to act or to refrain from acting in reliance thereon;
5. The plaintiff must have been unaware of the falsity of the representation; must have acted in reliance upon the truth of the representation and must have been justified in relying upon the representation;
6. And, finally, as a result of the reliance upon the truth of the representation, the plaintiff must have sustained damage.
http://www.west.net/~smith/deceit.htm |
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Skyblue2
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| University of Otago, New Zealand's no. 2 ranked, has an EdD and an MEd that are both online. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Skyblue2 wrote: |
| University of Otago, New Zealand's no. 2 ranked, has an EdD and an MEd that are both online. |
I've heard that the Uni of Auckland has a nearly all online EdD as well.
| redsnapper wrote: |
I still am waiting of explanation as to why you think its OK to advise the OP to misrepresent and lie on their application. I really hope she takes your advice does it and then later when it comes back that you advised her, then she or her employer sues you under the intentional tort of misrepresentation.
| Quote: |
The essential elements of a claim of fraud by an intentional misrepresentation are:
1. The defendant must have made a representation as to a past or existing material fact;
2. The representation must have been false;
3. The defendant must have known that the representation was false when made or must have made the representation recklessly without knowing whether it was true or false;
4. The defendant must have made the representation with an intent to defraud the plaintiff, that is, he she must have made the representation for the purpose of inducing the plaintiff to rely upon it and to act or to refrain from acting in reliance thereon;
5. The plaintiff must have been unaware of the falsity of the representation; must have acted in reliance upon the truth of the representation and must have been justified in relying upon the representation;
6. And, finally, as a result of the reliance upon the truth of the representation, the plaintiff must have sustained damage.
http://www.west.net/~smith/deceit.htm |
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Not going to lie period. Even if I were and tried to sue that poster, I'd be pretty hard pressed since I couldn't even prove that person's real name. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| redsnapper wrote: |
| Zero wrote: |
-I never said anything about earning PhDs online. I thought we were talking about distance learning at the master's degree level. I know next to nothing about PhDs, so I would be the wrong person to ask about that. |
Did you bother to read the original COQ? I didn't see any distinction made for only MA online degrees.
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I have an online MA in TEFL from Spain and will be getting another MA from Australia, also done online. I'm interested in going to either Saudi, Oman, or the UAE in a couple years to teach. Are online degrees accepted by most employers in these countries? |
The question asks are online degrees accepted. I think a reasonable prudent person could draw the conclusion that doesn't mean only MA online degrees.
| Zero wrote: |
| Yes, but a person could omit a couple of years of work experience from the resume and bingo, the degree was done entirely in Australia. You quite enjoyed Sydney, Melbourne not so much, and wow, how about those kangaroos! |
I still am waiting of explanation as to why you think its OK to advise the OP to misrepresent and lie on their application. I really hope she takes your advice does it and then later when it comes back that you advised her, then she or her employer sues you under the intentional tort of misrepresentation.
| Quote: |
The essential elements of a claim of fraud by an intentional misrepresentation are:
1. The defendant must have made a representation as to a past or existing material fact;
2. The representation must have been false;
3. The defendant must have known that the representation was false when made or must have made the representation recklessly without knowing whether it was true or false;
4. The defendant must have made the representation with an intent to defraud the plaintiff, that is, he she must have made the representation for the purpose of inducing the plaintiff to rely upon it and to act or to refrain from acting in reliance thereon;
5. The plaintiff must have been unaware of the falsity of the representation; must have acted in reliance upon the truth of the representation and must have been justified in relying upon the representation;
6. And, finally, as a result of the reliance upon the truth of the representation, the plaintiff must have sustained damage.
http://www.west.net/~smith/deceit.htm |
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This is ironic. You have misquoted me six ways from Sunday on this thread, misconstruing my statements to the point it's hard to believe it's accidental. And now you're explaining to me the definition of fraud and misrepresentation?
I hereby exit the thread.
Last edited by Zero on Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| redsnapper wrote: |
| The question asks are online degrees accepted. I think a reasonable prudent person could draw the conclusion that doesn't mean only MA online degrees. |
Not sure that I would agree with this. We literally never discuss Linguistics related PhDs here and always discuss MAs and the acceptability of internet MAs in TESOL in various countries. So... a reasonable and prudent person who has spent any time on this board would assume that we are talking about MAs.
Are you just being argumentative to pass your time? 
VS |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| redsnapper wrote: |
| The question asks are online degrees accepted. I think a reasonable prudent person could draw the conclusion that doesn't mean only MA online degrees. |
Not sure that I would agree with this. We literally never discuss Linguistics related PhDs here and always discuss MAs and the acceptability of internet MAs in TESOL in various countries. So... a reasonable and prudent person who has spent any time on this board would assume that we are talking about MAs.
Are you just being argumentative to pass your time?
VS |
Yep, sorry, I assumed that people knew it was an MA I was takling about, not a PhD. |
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redsnapper
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Zero wrote: |
| Yes, but a person could omit a couple of years of work experience from the resume and bingo, the degree was done entirely in Australia. You quite enjoyed Sydney, Melbourne not so much, and wow, how about those kangaroos! |
My major issue is with the fact that Zero told her to "omit" years of experience on her degree to cover up an online degree. If his whole contention is that an online degree is just as reputable as a traditional program then why did he suggest to her to omit years of experience on her resume so that her degree doesn't show up as being online. I find that a slight bit contradictory. I'm a bit surprised to see some people on here stand by and endorse this tactic. I personally think anyone who suggests such a tactic has no integrity and should not be instructing anyone on anything.
And yes omitting years of experience that you worked to create an effect that you didn't do an online degree is misrepresentation. Also its grounds for immediate termination for lying on one's CV.
The former Dean to MIT comes to mind when I think of Zero:
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The Massachusetts Institute of Technology does not feel the same way. It has abruptly accepted the resignation of its dean of admissions after she confessed that she didn't have the undergraduate or graduate degrees she had added to her r�sum� over the 28 years since she joined the M.I.T. admissions office.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1617508,00.html#ixzz1GJKgRnJq
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think this has become a tempest in a teapot.
If one is applying for a job where distance degrees are not accepted, then the responsible hiring committee can very easily establish whether a degree in question was completed on campus or not. It's not a difficult process, but a matter of very simple questions and answers.
Zero's suggestion was most likely made tongue-in-cheek and is obviously impractical in real life. Not a big deal - no one here is considering commiting fraud, for heaven's sake. |
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redsnapper
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
I think this has become a tempest in a teapot.
If one is applying for a job where distance degrees are not accepted, then the responsible hiring committee can very easily establish whether a degree in question was completed on campus or not. It's not a difficult process, but a matter of very simple questions and answers.
Zero's suggestion was most likely made tongue-in-cheek and is obviously impractical in real life. Not a big deal - no one here is considering commiting fraud, for heaven's sake. |
Sorry, I don't find anything tongue in-cheek when it comes to doctoring a CV and lying about one's credentials. |
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