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Happy Everyday
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 268
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 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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@GWOW -- you nailed it. Yes, that was my meaning. You're right almost 99% of the time. Even when I may disagree, you're still coming from a sincere place and a good heart. You're one of the people who makes this website great.
I gotta study go my script. No time for blogging anymore.
GWOW, you are an awesome person. it has to be said. |
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Happy Everyday
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Happy Everyday on Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The means of an American getting a visa to work in China is also limited to specialists and teachers, and perhaps diplomats, yes? |
Yes, limited to those with a bachelor's degree and a pulse. And the former is sometimes negotiable. A substantially more open policy that the U.S. policy regarding foreigners coming over to work.
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I think what he is trying to express is that Chinese, upon getting to America, can do anything if they work for it.
Including congressman. |
Yes, and on this point, I agree. China offers little opportunity to settle down permanently, build a life like a local, blend in. I, personally, also wish that it offered more chances in this regard. Realistically, though, in order to be an accountant, a physical therapist, a police officer or any other "normal" occupation in China, you're going to need excellent spoken and written Chinese. I do not qualify, and probably never will. (My spoken is OK, but I'm not about to put in the time to learn to read and write like a native.) Any job I get in China will be one based on my foreign-ness, regardless of whether the rules change.
The very fact that China has a little section of its economy partitioned off for foreigners is what allows me any chances in China at all. For me to then turn around and say I don't like being treated like a foreigner and don't like being confined to a special section of the economy does not make sense. Perhaps some of you who speak and write like natives feel differently. I'll be content to stick to our section and to foreign-owned companies, rather than trying to be a clerk in the Chengdu driver's license bureau, an auto mechanic in Chongqing, or vice president of sales for a Kunming company.
China does not owe us anything. Most of us here understand that. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:45 am Post subject: |
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what exactly are you people arguing about?
china has 1,300,000,000+ mouths to feed. something like
50% of them are living in bronze-age conditions. get out of
the big cities, and you'll have to admit china is still developing.
china is pushing to get their population educated, graduating
many tens of thousands from universities every year. should
they not have first shot at any open positions?
why should china (or any country) allow fur'ners to come into
their country to take jobs needed by their own population?
other than critical skills, and i don't think acting qualifies, why
should any country grant you a work visa?
be happy with your engrish teaching jobs, and leave the rest
to the natives. |
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Happy Everyday
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Happy Everyday on Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Happy Everyday
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Happy Everyday on Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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xjgirl
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| i know i know, all the BS makes me wanna go work on Donald Trump's Election Campaign team for free, and spend the rest of years trying to get them thrown out of the WTO |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
what exactly are you people arguing about?
china has 1,300,000,000+ mouths to feed. something like
50% of them are living in bronze-age conditions. get out of
the big cities, and you'll have to admit china is still developing.
china is pushing to get their population educated, graduating
many tens of thousands from universities every year. should
they not have first shot at any open positions?
why should china (or any country) allow fur'ners to come into
their country to take jobs needed by their own population?
other than critical skills, and i don't think acting qualifies, why
should any country grant you a work visa?
be happy with your engrish teaching jobs, and leave the rest
to the natives. |
The fast rising prices with low/lower quality products and services and with either smaller or deluded portions of goods such as food is a concern. Then, the foreign teachers salaries that've been just about the same as a decade ago according to the job offers around is rather worrying given the circumstances. Next, are the terms and conditions where local employers have chosen to abuse foreign workers and to use the internet more often than before. On the end, agreeably, we should be happy with all these inconveniences as we are just the guests here, aren't we? We haven't come to help in anything, especially in the education, so let's leave it up to natives, shall we?This isn't the west, is it?  |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
what exactly are you people arguing about?
china has 1,300,000,000+ mouths to feed. |
I don't buy the large number reason at all. Japan, Taiwan and South Korea all have roughly the same area per population ratio.
So does North Korea, Cuba and Zibambwe.
But they are different.
China is trying to be something.. something we did 'not see' in the world since WWII: A powerful capitalist society with strong nationalist-socialist governing principles.
There is no excuse for all the high prices and low salaries. No reason for them at all except for the fact that the powers that be allow it to continue through official policy.
And, thank God, this is why you will find a lot of 'help wanted' signs compared to before.
Everyone wants to be a boss, but no one wants to work for the boss at such low salaries.
This is exactly why my wife has no need to work. Even at 2000 a month, it's hardly worth it for 7 days a week, 12 hours a day. On good months.
I'd call it akin to slavery.
| Quote: |
| something like 50% of them are living in bronze-age conditions. get out of the big cities, and you'll have to admit china is still developing. |
My wife's hometown is way in the middle of nowhere, and they have electricity, a fridge, 2 computers, 2 TV's, not the stone age.
Not bad for 'poor farmers' living in the bronze age.
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| china is pushing to get their population educated |
Sorry, this is not true.
A student from Liaoning whose parents moved to Beijing for business purposes is not allowed to write the GAO KAO in Beijing.
And the Beijing GAO KAO is far easier than in Smalltown, Liaoning.
| Quote: |
| graduating many tens of thousands from universities every year. |
Who are going back home after finishing college because (guess what?) the jobs they are offered royally suck.
Go to university and study English and get your Master's in English and then teach for a lousy 1700 RMB a month.
Try it.
Or, work for yourself part-time teaching privately and earn 3000+ RMB a month.
| Quote: |
| should they not have first shot at any open positions? |
Sure, they can help themselves to all the clappy jobs, but less and less are taking them.
| Quote: |
why should china (or any country) allow fur'ners to come into
their country to take jobs needed by their own population? |
South Korea and Japan and Singapore do it all the time. So does Canada, the United States.... (list is endless)
China does not need just 'jobs'. It needs good jobs. Ask any 24 year old Chinese college grad if they disagree with this statement.
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other than critical skills, and i don't think acting qualifies, why
should any country grant you a work visa? |
Just off the top of my head.... attract customers.
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be happy with your engrish teaching jobs, and leave the rest
to the natives. |
The minute a native Chinese can pretend to be a foreign dignitary (at the opening of a shop or in the cinema), model as a foreigner for ads, attract customers to 'Ye Olde English Pub' in Midtown, China, etc., I will agree with you.
China of 2011 is not China of 2001. |
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wesharris
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
what exactly are you people arguing about?
china has 1,300,000,000+ mouths to feed. something like
50% of them are living in bronze-age conditions. get out of
the big cities, and you'll have to admit china is still developing.
china is pushing to get their population educated, graduating
many tens of thousands from universities every year. should
they not have first shot at any open positions?
why should china (or any country) allow fur'ners to come into
their country to take jobs needed by their own population?
other than critical skills, and i don't think acting qualifies, why
should any country grant you a work visa?
be happy with your engrish teaching jobs, and leave the rest
to the natives. |
When bootstrapping a nation, it takes time. China's doing a damned quick job at it. First rate in many appearances. |
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chinanoodles
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Exactly what meaning is the population to area ratio supposed to have? I don't see any relation at all. Perhaps I missed it.
Yes, salaries are low for many jobs in China, especially entry level positions and no/low skill positions. Groundbreaking this is not.
I can pretty much promise you that if the gov't felt the people were getting pissed off about it enough to matter then they would intervene. The last thing this country (and any other) wants is an angry population. It should rightly be the only thing they fear.
2k/month is livable. Hardly slavery. Also, that would only be their salary, they also have retirement and healthcare paid for or subsidized by the employer. Not to mention, most Chinese find ways to make 'additional' income. You mentioned the salary of Chinese teachers being low. Maybe. I wonder how some of them afford BMW's....
My wife used to work for an English school earning 1.5k/month and not as a teacher. I can assure you she supplemented her income nicely. This has little bearing on anything though. I agree that inflation in China is an issue but I can't agree with most of your statements.
As for the push to educate their students...you's have to be pretty blind to not acknowledge that as a fact. Only the US pushes out more PhD's. Also, you forgot to mention something about the Gao Kao. You must take the test where your Hu Kou Ben lists you as residing. If it does not list her as residing in Beijing she'd have to take the test in her hometown. She can use that test to go to University in Beijing but she'd have to score significantly higher then Beijingren to be considered. I can't say if the test is easier in one province vs another, I simply do not know. Seems likely though. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 2k/month is livable. |
I dare anyone who agrees with this comment to have a try for the next 12 months and get back to us after. 2k a month for working upwards of 12 hours a day with MAYBE one or two days off in a month is laughable. That is why, whenever they'll take it, I'll tip the foot massage person, the waitress, the haircut person, the taxi driver . . . It's not much for sure, but I appreciate these servers/services and I know the crappy wages they are earning. Just go out and try and work a long day like this, then find another job to subsidize your earnings. Again, do this for a year, then get back to us. |
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chinanoodles
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 2k/month is livable. |
I dare anyone who agrees with this comment to have a try for the next 12 months and get back to us after. 2k a month for working upwards of 12 hours a day with MAYBE one or two days off in a month is laughable. That is why, whenever they'll take it, I'll tip the foot massage person, the waitress, the haircut person, the taxi driver . . . It's not much for sure, but I appreciate these servers/services and I know the crappy wages they are earning. Just go out and try and work a long day like this, then find another job to subsidize your earnings. Again, do this for a year, then get back to us. |
I sure as hell can't do it but I know plenty of people who do. Some on less, a few on significantly less.
Perhaps you misunderstood my meaning when I said many folks supplement their income. I thought my example made it clear but I was not referring to working a second job.
As to tipping, maybe it depends on the city but when I first came to QD I did tip since it was what I was used to. After getting dirty looks and mumbled at in Chinese and my friends telling me in many cases it's almost an insult...I stopped.
If you want to help folks with little money there may be better ways than a few RMB here and there. |
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Salvatore
Joined: 22 May 2011
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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The Bellman at the Holiday Inn in GZ usually has his hand out and smiles Noodles.
He does earn it though via deliveries and other matters.
I just pass my phoney money on to him. I'm sure he can pass it off. |
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chinanoodles
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Salvatore wrote: |
The Bellman at the Holiday Inn in GZ usually has his hand out and smiles Noodles.
He does earn it though via deliveries and other matters.
I just pass my phoney money on to him. I'm sure he can pass it off. |
Smart man. He understands that many foreigners tip because they do it at home, or like some others...are trying to save the people of China from their bondage 2RMB at a time. /shrug |
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