Job Discussion Forums

[igorG]

[Guerciotti]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[steve b]

GWW, at no time do I believe I asserted such things never happen, simply that I had difficulty in believing it or that western adults would put up with it.

It is clear to me now from what Guerci says that it does indeed occur - hopefully the exception - and if I am honest an 0100 lockout is something which just might trouble me once a year so I could live with that. Not only because of my advanced years but also being in a small city everything virtually wraps up by 2200 and the only places to go are KTVs - I wouldn't have liked them even in my 20s!

As for going anywhere in China whilst your passport is away, simply take your FEC with you. The longest my passport has been away (more than 2 days) it wasn't with the school. We had handed it in to the police station, who in turn sent it off, telling me to return in 4 days to collect. In the event, it wasn't returned to them on time so I had to go back again three days later. Nothing sinister, simply bureaucracy.

[7969]

[Lobster]

I have no doubt that some employers may try to impose odious conditions or cheat teachers. It's a good thing to be aware of all the tricks they may try to pull by reading other comments. They may be rare, but they do happen. The idea is to make sure they don't happen to you. You do this by asking lots of questions and making sure your contract is specific about connditions. If the school tries to impose a curfew that wasn't mentioned, demand a key. Nobody should be locked in their school or have movement restricted after work hours. If you accept it or don't ask questions, you have only yourself to blame.

RED

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

Please read carefully the following:

This thread is becoming far too personal with too many comments directed at the messenger rather than the message.

Stating that another member is deliberately making false statements is over the line and not acceptable.

Repeats of such personal asides and messenger directed rather than message directed comments will be deleted and sanctions of the most severe variety will be issued along with the thread no longer being available.

I kid you not.

[Guerciotti]

[Miles Smiles]

At one college, curfews were suggested but not mandated. If one went into the city, one could be stranded because the last bus to the campus area quit running at 9:30 and cabs became scarce. We were also warned that we may encounter anti-western sentiment. (This was a few years ago). The curfew was 11:00 pm. I got a landline phone call every Friday and Saturday night right at 11:00 with nobody speaking on the other end. After a few weeks of that stuff, I unplugged the phone.

Again, the curfews were suggested. Those who had scooters generally ignored the curfew. Only one FT I've known should have had a curfew imposed because she tended to hang out in bars and come in around sun-up, tipsy and crashing about with her scooter.

If a school actually imposes a curfew, it's usually done so for the good of the FT. If one lives on-campus, curfew or not, it's a good idea not to come back staggering. It looks bad, and it'll come back to haunt you.

The assumption of some Chinese is that many of us are drunken libertines (a poor assumption, I think). I keep in mind that I am a guest here and a representative of my country.

[Lobster]

[igorG]

If an adult FT wants to go out at any time, except the scheduled working time, s/he ought not to be restricted whatsoever. This is one of the basic rights. Employment agreements sometimes, if not more often, do not directly mention the restriction. It's really sad that any employer or local authority would impose such regulations as curfews on foreign professionals and/or any foreigners at all. Curfews are signs of weaknesses of employers and/or local authorities. They either demonstrate how poorly the campuses/localities are run or they indicate hidden agendas of the powers.

[Miles Smiles]

I accept the resistance to my proposition that the curfews are "usually" in the interest of the FT. Not everyone has experienced what I have experienced, and I have not experienced everything that others have experienced.

At two of the schools in which I was taught, the cities were not good places to be on a weekend at night because there were so many p*ss drunk KTV-ers on the street looking for a fight. Being a round-eye made one an easy target.

When I arrived at my present school about two years ago, walking about the city during the day (and the area surrounding the campus) was dangerous until the police started cleaning up the city's image.

If you haven't lived in such a city, you might not understand my point of view.

I don't condone treating FTs as if they were children, nor do I condone the prison-like conditions of some of the abodes in which some FTs must live. Having bars on the apartment windows but no fire exit is dangerous. It isn't likely that conditions like that would exist in the west, certainly not in the U.S. where most cities strictly enforce state and national fire codes.

That FTs are treated as if they were children in some schools is not surprising. FTs are expected to accept faulty, conflicting schedules without question. FTs are expected to accept late pay without question. FTs are expected to accept poor living and working conditions without question.

Why? The CTs accept almost everything that the schools throw at them without question. Employees at other businesses are expected to accept "advice" as a mandate.

The peace and social harmony that the Chinese supposedly value comes largely from the citizens' acceptance of conditions that are imposed upon them. Adult westerners--- both responsible and irresponsible--- find curfews to be unacceptable because our western cultures give us the freedom to choose. Chinese culture doesn't always give us that freedom.

I can stay out as late as I want. Nobody can stop me from coming home crawling drunk seven nights per week if I want. I can go anywhere in the city at any time as long as I pay admission prices and don't disrupt the social order.

Do I stay out at night? Nope. I am inside my apartment by sundown because my perception of my city is that it isn't foreigner-friendly after dark. The daytime isn't much different. Sure, store owners accept me because they believe that renminbi flows through my veins and they all hope I'll drop 10,000 kuai on a refrigerator, a 60 inch TV, or pay 100 rmb for a shoe shine.

Do I need to be told to stay inside after dark? Nope. I am too aware of my surroundings to be so stupid to go to a KTV on a weekend unless I were accompanied by a squad of friendly-but-menacing-looking bank money transfer guards toting those shoulder-fired cannons that they carry.

The unfortunate part of school curfews is that some FTs need to be reminded that they are NOT in Mayberry, USA, and that the carousers on the street aren't all the lovable Otis Campbell, the town drunk.

[Zero]

Jeez. What city are you in? Never been in a Chinese city like that.

[Opiate]

[7969]