Job Discussion Forums

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I would like to discuss the new tax, not shaking my crystal ball.

Anyone want to discuss the topic at hand, or are some going to continue to try to derail another yet another thread they disapprove of?

[wangdaning]

OK, the tax has not been applied and no sources in the government claim it will be retro-active here. It is all speculation, reminds me of the 2008 games (of which I got a 1 year visa for and later went to HK to change). Media hype, that is what we are dealing with.

[steve b]

GWW I think you will find you precipitated the derailment with your comments concerning where a poster learned English and your authoritative assertion as to the nature of Canucks. Houses and glass spring to mind.

As for the tax, I posted a little while back on the result of a meeting between Shanghai business leaders and the government, where it was made quite plain by the govt that it was a poorly thought out law and that the drawing board was being revisited. Incidentally, a couple or three weeks ago it featured on CCTV9 and there was an American female teacher who has been here a decade complaining about the imposition - as indeed I feel most of us do.

[7969]

[MisterButtkins]

[Cyberkada]

Good podcast, but its skewed to the upper end. Errr... he thinks we can all afford it.

http://www.chinamoneypodcast.com/2011/11/04/paul-gillis-chinas-expat-social-insurance-tax-lacks-clarity/

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[SahanRiddhi]

I like you, GWoW. Not in a gay way, but I appreciate your comments and efforts to help, even when I do not agree with some of your points.

[Guerciotti]

[Cyberkada]

Definitely a regressive tax. Hitting mainly FTs the hardest. So *roughly* 11% for the FT and 37% for the employer (school) depending on location.

Expats in other industries do make significantly more, so they just kinda laugh at the new tax. The US Chamber of Commerce directly states that those hurt the most will be schools and FTs employed at those schools.

In any case, unless you are the super indispensable teacher and the school will close without you, your pay will decrease and your job is at risk. Of course, there will be some that can negotiate a raise. There are likewise those that the salary is NET of taxes. Will you quit if the tax is imposed anyways?

Time for one of those poll thingys.
How many teachers here can take the 11% haircut every month, as well as the large initial retroactive haircut, if this thing comes to pass?

11% puts me below what I was earning in another (SE) Asian country.

Historically, I don't know any government pulling back a tax once it is planned and imposed.

For many of us - certain posters excluded (we all know who you are) - 11% is a major loss.

Your turn. stay on topic.

[Guerciotti]

I can take the haircut, but I don't want to. I think the FT will bear part of the employer's burden one way or another, so I view this as more than an 11% reduction in pay. For those who wish to quibble about about how and if the FT will bear part of the employer's burden: I cannot prove anything, I've just been around and that's what my gut tells me. Reasonable minds may differ.

Will I leave if they retroactively enforce the 11%? I won't cut and run, but I doubt I would sign another contract because I doubt the employers will foot the bill for all of their share and the next contract offer may be considerably less than the previous one. I don't blame them. As haircuts go, that's a crewcut.

Furthermore, I doubt I could effectively claim my contributions when I go, so I would leave ASAP. It is all too convenient for them to make it most inconvenient to access.

There may be hope. While the tax has been enacted, it has not yet been imposed. I think Mr. Buttkins says he thinks they won't enforce it. I agree. I think that's at least part of why this thing has hovered for months with no action or real news. Maybe they would like to forget it, or rewrite it?

I wonder about university contracts. I understand that Beijing funds university salaries. Maybe that's not true, but if it is true will Beijing increase the allowance by 47% to cover the additional cost? Maybe they overlooked that when they crafted this law. That may explain why they're dragging their feet on this. I know my side of the story but what about the FAOs? All of a sudden they must send another 37% of those darn FTs salary to wherever it goes. Do they even have the money?

If they retroactively enforce this law, the FAOs must come up with 37% of each FTs salary per month, not to mention the private schools. Dam.

I don't think it's happening. They may rework it, but I don't see this thing flying as written. Then again, I've been wrong before.

[steve b]

GWW, "C" of course! Clearly an American girl and as such is highly credible. If you believe that then you will no doubt believe I disagree with all your posts rather than just some of them! The sensible thing would be to ignore because native speakers - well you know the rest........

Back to the tax. Yes, there are expats in China earning vastly larger sums than the Beijing ceiling. I have a friend who earns in excess of 60K pcm plus plentiful benefits of (at least) a 3-bed detached home, medical insurance, child education etc. Will said friend actually pay the tax? No, the employer will implement an equivalent salary increase to cover it.

However, as I stated, the reason I believe there is an hiatus is because nobody in the legislature considered the possibility that people might actually claim the benefits - such as they are. FTs were never the target. If however it is ever enforced, we will become "innocent" victims. How many of us work for schools which exploit the loophole by paying most of our salaries to our accounts back home and paying a peppercorn wage in yuan here, thus avoiding taxes? Answers on a postcard please.

Could I afford the haircut? Yes, of course, although it would impinge insofar as putting monies aside for visits to the UK is concerned. Do I think that if the law is enforced on 15th July I would have to have 99% of that month's salary deducted? No, I am confident my own school would arrange instalments.

As far as I am aware, Beijing is still the only place where the pay packets are being lightened, but I have yet to see an FT working there post saying they are paying it - if they have and I missed it I would be grateful for a correction.

Questions:

Are there any members who are considering actually staying long-term and hoping to retire in China?

Are there any of the above who probably don't have enough working years left to achieve the three-lustrum payment record for the pension?

And no, the questions are neither rhetorical nor flippant.

[Gtomas]

I hear it's more difficult to get a job in South Korea. I suppose I don't blame them. I've actually been thinking about working in Korea or Taiwan and continuing to study (simplified) Chinese.

Yes, a little strange to go to Korea to learn Chinese... What am I saying? That sounds crazy.

[Guerciotti]

Re: Steve b questions,
I have not decided where to retire, but I have not ruled out China.

I can do the 15 years of contributions but that leaves little time to teach elsewhere.

The difficult part of applying in South Korea was waiting for my FBI report and my irreversible 'older male' condition, but it could be done. I finally said to heck with it and came to China.

But Korea pays about twice as much as a Chinese uni job and all told I work too many hours for this uni so the hours would be about the same.

Why not work in SK while you study Chinese and vacation in China? I have given that some thought but I'm here until July so I'm in no rush.

I'll wait to see what they ultimately do with this program. It will be interesting to say the least.

[steve b]

Many thanks Guerco, it is something I am considering but at 55 I can't get the 15 years in - I will be dead by then!

Don't mind paying for something I might get....