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| Are Bilinguals Really Smarter? |
| Yes, no doubt about it. |
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12% |
[ 4 ] |
| No, but they can be dumb in two languages. |
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32% |
[ 10 ] |
| Yup - at sorting read and blue squares. |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
| Some are, some aren't. |
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48% |
[ 15 ] |
| Yes, but they're dumber than polyglots. |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 31 |
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Message |
JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Comrades! Reading a complete volume of Hegel in the morning, while still under the effects of the previous night's indulgences, and discussing dialectical materialism in the afternoon over a few beers, and then arguing about the differences between the German original and the Russian translations all through the night: that is what I define as SMART!
Easy! When you are on the side of Socialism and History... |
Sounds to me like someone who dies penniless on the street like Edgar Allen Poe!
Have fun reading Hegel in the morning while not being able to afford a few beers. Also, you won't be able to afford the electricity to discuss the German original and the Russian translations during the night! |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear spiral78,
Well, you made me google (all I could think of was Charles Dunning meets Freddy Kruger).
So, to sum up, W.B. Yeats anticipated the Dunning-Kruger effect:
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst. Are full of passionate intensity."
Regards,
John |
Are you describing Rick Santorum? "while the worst. Are full of passionate intensity." |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Comrades! Reading a complete volume of Hegel in the morning, while still under the effects of the previous night's indulgences, and discussing dialectical materialism in the afternoon over a few beers, and then arguing about the differences between the German original and the Russian translations all through the night: that is what I define as SMART!
Easy! When you are on the side of Socialism and History... |
Sounds to me like someone who dies penniless on the street like Edgar Allen Poe!
Have fun reading Hegel in the morning while not being able to afford a few beers. Also, you won't be able to afford the electricity to discuss the German original and the Russian translations during the night! |
But not at all! Such comments are typical of the Capitalist Piggies who slander the Glorious Motherland. Die penniless when you have initiated a Dictatorship of the Proletariat? No electricity when Communism equals Soviet power plus electricity? These are self-evidently not smart things to say.
Some re-education will bring about the required smarts for you, laddie...
Last edited by Sashadroogie on Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| johnslat wrote: |
Dear spiral78,
Well, you made me google (all I could think of was Charles Dunning meets Freddy Kruger).
So, to sum up, W.B. Yeats anticipated the Dunning-Kruger effect:
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst. Are full of passionate intensity."
Regards,
John |
Are you describing Rick Santorum? "while the worst. Are full of passionate intensity." |
That what it sounds like to me! |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Interesting extra detail from the wiki entry on this phenomenon. Perhaps we could extend it to EFL teachers too?
Cross-cultural variation
Studies on the Dunning�Kruger effect tend to focus on American test subjects. Similar studies on European subjects show marked muting of the effect;[citation needed] studies on some East Asian subjects suggest that something like the opposite of the Dunning�Kruger effect operates on self-assessment and motivation to improve:
Regardless of how pervasive the phenomenon is, it is clear from Dunning's and others' work that many Americans, at least sometimes and under some conditions, have a tendency to inflate their worth. It is interesting, therefore, to see the phenomenon's mirror opposite in another culture. In research comparing North American and East Asian self-assessments, Heine of the University of British Columbia finds that East Asians tend to underestimate their abilities, with an aim toward improving the self and getting along with others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect |
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timothypfox
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:32 am Post subject: |
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Johnslat said,
| Quote: |
| The collective evidence from a number of such studies suggests that the bilingual experience improves the brain�s so-called executive function � a command system that directs the attention processes that we use for planning, solving problems and performing various other mentally demanding tasks. These processes include ignoring distractions to stay focused, switching attention willfully from one thing to another and holding information in mind � like remembering a sequence of directions while driving. |
In other words Johnslat, airplane pilots, bus drivers, or taxi drivers may exhibit the same mental skills as a bilingual person. For that matter, why not a police officer, scientist, lawyer, or bookkeeper who must all problem solve and have attention to detail. People living in another culture who may or may not know the language must plan, solve problems and perform various other mentally demanding tasks to develop cultural biliteracy. Children who play computer games, or people who play sports must also problem solve and have attention to detail and ignore distraction and switching attention willfully from one thing to another and hold information in mind.
What I'm getting at and perhaps Johnslat might be pointing to is that the conclusions about bilingual people could be said about several bilingual and non-biligual individuals who could be grouped together by activity or industry.
For these conclusions to be more sound, I would like to see bilinguals in certain industries which involve "problem solv[ing] and hav[ing] attention to detail and ignor[ing] distraction and switching attention willfully from one thing to another and hold information in mind" with non-bilinguals in the same industries.
It is also fuzzy what "language" is. Does that include math? Language knowledge is also only a part of cultural literacy. People who live in multi-cultural societies may illustrate the so-called unique features of bilinguals that Johnslat points out.
Until then, it remains fuzzy science for me.[/quote] |
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timothypfox
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Johnslat said,
| Quote: |
| The collective evidence from a number of such studies suggests that the bilingual experience improves the brain�s so-called executive function � a command system that directs the attention processes that we use for planning, solving problems and performing various other mentally demanding tasks. These processes include ignoring distractions to stay focused, switching attention willfully from one thing to another and holding information in mind � like remembering a sequence of directions while driving. |
In other words Johnslat, airplane pilots, bus drivers, or taxi drivers may exhibit the same mental skills as a bilingual person. For that matter, why not a police officer, scientist, lawyer, or bookkeeper who must all problem solve and have attention to detail. People living in another culture who may or may not know the language must plan, solve problems and perform various other mentally demanding tasks to develop cultural biliteracy. Children who play computer games, or people who play sports must also problem solve and have attention to detail and ignore distraction and switching attention willfully from one thing to another and hold information in mind.
What I'm getting at and perhaps Johnslat might be pointing to is that the conclusions about bilingual people could be said about several bilingual and non-biligual individuals who could be grouped together by activity or industry.
For these conclusions to be more sound, I would like to see bilinguals in certain industries which involve "problem solv[ing] and hav[ing] attention to detail and ignor[ing] distraction and switching attention willfully from one thing to another and hold information in mind" with non-bilinguals in the same industries.
It is also fuzzy what "language" is. Does that include math? Language knowledge is also only a part of cultural literacy. People who live in multi-cultural societies may illustrate the so-called unique features of bilinguals that Johnslat points out.
Until then, it remains fuzzy science for me.[/quote] |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Dear timothyfox,
Actually, johnslat isn't saying or pointing to anything; the article is. And the reason johnslat made it a poll was that he's not at all sure about the claims made in the article.
But if you promise not to tell, I reveal johnslat's vote to you: "Some are, some aren't" (which happens right now to be in the lead with 46%).
Regards,
John  |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Johnslat
Psssst! Don't tell anyone this, but I voted the same way... I think, hic! Can't really remember now...
Shasha |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Sasha,
My lips are sealed (which makes taking nourishment extremely difficult). Of course, were your lips sealed, you could simply take your vodka intravenously. (Or do you do it that way already?)
Regards,
John |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Dear Johnslat
Only when hospitalised. Or teaching.
Sasha |
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