Job Discussion Forums

SledgeCleaver · Joined: 02 Mar 2013 Posts: 126

I like that somebody mentioned Foxconn. OP, if you're not familiar, Foxconn is a MAJOR electronics manufacturing firm, they do a huge percentage of Apple's manufacturing, meaning the workers are building iPhones that sell for $500 (if not 500 euro or 500 GBP) or laptops that sell for $3000 and all manner of nice things. Foxconn has been in the news because the working conditions are so bad that workers literally and fairly regularly climb to the top of one of the buildings and jump off. 12 hour days, 14 hour days, 7 days a week, pay is late, benefits not paid, you are fired the day before your check comes, you can't feed your family, they constantly harass and berate you and force you to work in terrible terrible conditions. They don't call it a "sweatshop" for nothing. Try working there for a week, then you start worrying about "exploitation" in your job.

How about those 5-year-old kids in Indonesia or Malaysia who assemble $150 tennis shoes for 5 cents an hour? I guess China has developed past that, they don't force their children to do such terrible things. But there are countries nearby where such lives are a reality.

You're living in a country that could easily be compared to gilded-age America. You know, 10-year-olds spending 12 hours a day shoveling coal and whatnot. That sort of thing happens in China. There are kids who spend their lives picking through discarded computer parts for the little bits of metal that can be melted down and recycled. Of course, they're being contaminated by heavy metals and battery fluids and god knows what else, and the work is bad and doesn't pay, but they don't have an alternative, you could say.

Here's the thing, ace. There are TWO markets here, not one. The first market price is decided by the supply of English lessons and the demand for English lessons. The supply is low (because there are very few teachers in the town) and the demand is very high (because Engrish helps the kiddies succeed in school or business.) This is why your employer can cram 75 kids into a classroom, a situation that would never fly any place where there are a sufficient number of teachers. Now, there is a SECOND market, which is the demand for foreign teachers internationally, and the supply. There is a decent amount of demand, certainly, however the supply is massive, considering the fact that to teach English, you don't need many qualifications. If you have a basic education and are a native speaker, you're essentially qualified, especially for work in a developing country. In that respect, the pool of potential teachers your employer is drawing from is absolutely HUGE. That's why he doesn't have to pay you very much.

Also, half the reason teachers are getting cheaper is that young people in America/Britain/wherever have FAR fewer opportunities than they did a generation ago. Lots of educated kids, very few jobs that pay a living wage (if there are jobs at all) - this is a recipe for those kids becoming migrant expat ESL workers to survive and keep part of their dignity. Feel free to berate some pimply-faced college kid from backwoods Saskatchewan for being willing to work for peanuts, but he's just trying to get his. You might be educated or smart or an excellent teacher, but let's be real, the pimply kid from Saskatchewan speaks English just as well as you do, just like in the old days, the guy down the block could shovel coal just as well as you could.

It's the new economy, bro. Nobody said it was pretty, except the well-connected and well-capitaled old folks and baby boomers raking it in hand over fist with young and marginalized people's labor. It's a worldwide phenomenon, and lots of people have WAY less choice of profession than you do or did.

SledgeCleaver · Joined: 02 Mar 2013 Posts: 126

Also, who's getting rich from the Foxconn gig? The founder and some of the bigwigs are certainly very very wealthy, in fact I believe the founder of Foxconn is top 5 or so in terms of rich Chinese nationals. However, he's scum in the pond compared to Steve Jobs and company. I remember some case where 150 workers or so were poisoned, ie. they were working with a chemical that literally poisoned them and made them sick. Not only did they not receive medical treatment or benefits or severance, they were simply fired and had to pay for their own treatment. They were writing letters to Steve Jobs and American journalists all over the place, asking the great titan of the electronics industry to help them out, but not even that, to treat them with basic dignity, to STICK TO THE CONTRACT. Steve Jobs never replied or did anything for them.

And let's look at Steve Jobs. When he died, you'd have thought Gandhi and Nelson Mandela kicked the bucket on the same day. He's such a visionary, such a great man, let's all be like him and humanity will never be the same. Fawning obituaries, books and biographies being published... I don't deny that he's a great businessman and in some sense a visionary, but come on, he's also one of the great all-time exploiters of Asian labor. Does that prevent him from being lionized in America and all over the world? HELL NO. He's likely seen as a hero by young and old alike from Boston to Bangkok and everywhere in-between.

That's the world we live in. Your principal might be a corrupt money-grubbing *beep*, but if so, he's in good company in the modern economy. His funeral's probably going to be bigger than yours, if you take my meaning.

choudoufu · Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC

wonderingjoesmith · Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Posts: 910 Location: Guangzhou

LarssonCrew · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 1308

Ok, ok.

So if everything in China is fair, and everything works the same for everyone, and it's fine for the Chinese bosses to make it big, then may I, as a foreigner, please have the same level of services/things provided as a native Chinese?

So, in my university I want:

90% off buying a house near by.
1/2 the mortgage fee paid by the university
PICC upto 2,000,000 RMB healthcare
A large 100% salary bonus at spring festival
Ability to accept black money from parents/students to improve grades
Ability to take the students on a yearly trip to Europe, free of charge, and have ALL expenses in country reinbursed[dodgy fapio allowed]
Free meals at expensive restaurants
Ability to 'hook up' with the local education bureau and rent out my classrooms for a large fee
Ability to reinburse travel expenses
Free phone
Free phone calls and internet
Free computer
Free training trips to other cities in 5* hotels, the course is only for 2 days but I'd like a 7 day stay

What?

We aren't allowed any BECAUSE we are foreigners?

Is that fair?

Do my student's learn more in my class than a CT? Yes, they've told me so.

But in the end I'm not getting as good as them? Why?

Because I'm not Chinese.

I'm not therefore asking for a larger share of the pot, I'm simply asking for parallel contract with my Chinese peers.

Is that so unreasonable to ask for?

SledgeCleaver · Joined: 02 Mar 2013 Posts: 126

NoBillyNO · Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 1762

amemorylost · Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 29

NoBillyNO · Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 1762

Ralph Winfield · Joined: 26 Apr 2013 Posts: 30

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

Look at the number of posts chou has.
Why would he/she dilute the brand by posing as the u_n_d_e_r_s_c_o_r_e_d o_n_e?

choudoufu · Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC

Asiateacher · Joined: 03 Apr 2013 Posts: 22 Location: Shenzhen, China

In a small town??? Is it a coal town?? Super rich place? Most small town folks don't earn more than 1500 RMB/month... I doubt they could pay so much for English course... Something fishy here

JustinC · Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 3:45 pm Post subject:

Some owner in the EFL industry is making it big. I don't see how this affects us negatively. If anything it's a good thing. In fact, we need people like him.

Why? Chinese people will see this industry as a way to make money; they'll get involved and they'll encourage their kids to as well. Who else will fund them in their golden years? If their kids' English skills aren't good enough to start/run a school it's still a useful skill in manufacturing, tourism and will add to their grades to get into a good university, so they can get a good job. Who else will fund them in their golden years?

Will the stock market. Will their house/s? Maybe, they may have 2 houses but if their sprog shacks up with a dunce .. Who else will fund them in their golden years? They've only the one chance to grow a golden egg, what sane parent, with money, would waste that opportunity?

Japan had its Englishee euphoria, then Korea (where doing privates is illegal) had its. I find it difficult to believe China will not. Locals charging a gazillion will only make native speakers' situations better because they can undercut and outmaneuver bosses who have to deal with erratic employees, overheads, gossip, slander, competition and bureaucracy. If you're smart, dedicated and low key the next 10 years could be very comfortable.

Your boss being a millionaire is a great, big, golden flag, saying you should start working on your one-to-one and small class methodology. If parents are willing to pay for their kid to be one of several dozen then they'd certainly prefer to pay at least the same amount for their little precious to be one in four. With four kids you can do pair, peer and group work but still afford to spring the odd pizza or day out. Accept the right kids (who have parents with connections and money) and keep them happy and other parents will throw their money at you. That's supply/demand or economics, something your boss and Jobs both understood. You may not be an Apple but nor is Asus.