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Korea and Japan
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

water rat wrote:
Shane is British only by the accident of birth of its eponymous founder. I knew the man personally and he is a ten-gallon donkey's anus. I'm not saying that all, most or many Brits are that way, but he sure was. Neutral


Didn't know the origin story. Seems most early eikaiwa folk were pretty lousy when I hearabout them.

Any stories?
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water rat



Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Shane's original textbooks, written by still-a-bachelor Shane and his right-hand twerp (also single) the course ended with a study dialog of the the teacher getting the phone number of 'Fumiko' (the hapless protagonist of the series) and arrangements for a date. Rolling Eyes
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Black_Beer_Man



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
Tell me where exactly you would like to live.
The city is quite spread out. It gets really crowded around Mizonokuchi.
I live in the northern part, which is the least developed,
but if the subway line is built to connect to Azamino, then I expect the population to go up.


Mizonoguchi crowded? You can say that again. Wow! It's the most crowded neighborhood I have ever seen to the point that I ask myself "Who would ever choose to live here?" It's crowded to the point of looking like an ant colony.

I taught a business class here and that's how I got to know about Mizonoguchi. I wonder why it's so crowded? Poor city planning? It's not a poor area either. Looks upper middle class to me.
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Black_Beer_Man



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for why there are so many American teachers in Korea, one just has to look at who is protecting South Korea from the North and also the many American lives that were sacrificed in the Korean War on behalf of South Korea.

South Korea feels indebted to the Americans.
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RM1983



Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: sdf Reply with quote

thomthom wrote:
Shimokitazawa wrote:

Tokyo is boring and expensive compared with Seoul. Itaewon has changed a lot in the last ten years. I like it. There are some really good bars and restaurants in Itaewon .

Night life is superior in Seoul, the taxis cheaper, and it's much easier to meet people for a drink and has a much better overall vibe than Tokyo.


This might immediately sound ad hominem, but I think that any 'thinking person' would prefer Tokyo. In terms of things to see and do, especially historical and cultural things, Tokyo is just miles, miles ahead of Seoul. Tokyo often seems more sleepy exactly because it is more wordly and sophisticated - more like London or Paris than any other Asian city - and has experienced layers and layers of development over a longer period of time. Things are spread out and you need to know where you're going. There is much more in the way of art galleries, museums, temples, interesting ancient AND modern architecture, beautiful gardens and parks, and so on.

A lot of the negative points about the culture and infrastructure of Seoul (and Korea in general) are related to it having developed so recently/rapidly, like a bloated factory chicken, in economic terms. The fact that there are 2-3 very clear 'party districts' in Seoul is a consequence of that. If you love binge drinking (irrespective of how piss-poor the beer is) and clubbing (irrespective of the awful Pop and Usher-style R&B, with few alternatives), ie: if you're not very cultural or fussy, sure, you're going to enjoy Seoul more. This is why I think it's a perfect destination for 22 year old's who have recently graduated. This is also why it is not a good place to live long-term, in my opinion.

I'll admit, though, it is much easier to simply go out and have a raucously good time in Seoul. Most Japanese don't seem up for a party. (Having said that, Japanese women are much easier to get into the sack. So.. it's swings and roundabouts. Lol).

One significant difference I find between S. Korea and Japan: Korea is the most Americanised and America-centric nation in Asia. In Japan, by contrast, there is much more European influence. You're equally if not more likely to meet people who are Anglo-centric. I'm not a nationalist but I think this is kind of cool, especially because Japan has kind of CHOSEN to be Anglocentric, whereas Korea is Americanised mostly due to historical myopia. In Korea they tend to associate the entirety of Western civilization with the U.S.A... It was no shock to encounter kids there who thought that Shakespeare and Newton were American. Laughing



Essentially I think you have a point here in that Tokyo seems to be for an older crowd. Seoul for younger. The Hongdae area is a university area and that is probably the most exciting for me in Seoul.

Now that Im into my 30s I dont mind staying in for 3 weekends a month and thn going to a good restaurant and a decent pub then Tokyo is probably better for that.

For twenty-somethings still going out and getting wasted every weekend then Seoul is probably better. I miss the cheapness and wildness of Korea but Im probably getting a little old for that now.

I think things might be about to turn around with their beer though. Think there has been some rule change and the market is opening up. Craft bars opening up etc.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mizonokuchi is near Shibuya plus it is cheaper to live there than across the river. It is an express stop on Denentoshi.
That is it.
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Black_Beer_Man



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: sdf Reply with quote

RM1983 wrote:
thomthom wrote:
Shimokitazawa wrote:

Tokyo is boring and expensive compared with Seoul. Itaewon has changed a lot in the last ten years. I like it. There are some really good bars and restaurants in Itaewon .

Night life is superior in Seoul, the taxis cheaper, and it's much easier to meet people for a drink and has a much better overall vibe than Tokyo.


Laughing



Essentially I think you have a point here in that Tokyo seems to be for an older crowd. Seoul for younger. The Hongdae area is a university area and that is probably the most exciting for me in Seoul.

Now that Im into my 30s I dont mind staying in for 3 weekends a month and thn going to a good restaurant and a decent pub then Tokyo is probably better for that.

For twenty-somethings still going out and getting wasted every weekend then Seoul is probably better. I miss the cheapness and wildness of Korea but Im probably getting a little old for that now.

I think things might be about to turn around with their beer though. Think there has been some rule change and the market is opening up. Craft bars opening up etc.



I don't buy the argument that Tokyo is more suited than Seoul for an older crowd. You're just making excuses to defend Tokyo.

Seoul now has craft beer pubs and British type pubs for the mature crowd. It has good coffee shops too. There are sporting events to see. A weak point may be with art galleries. If that's your passion, Tokyo is better.

Where Seoul clearly defeats Tokyo is in the selection of independent restaurants that serve up delicious affordable food.

A VERY important point to make in this thread is food portion sizes. When I came to Japan and saw small portions in restaurants, I rationalized it with the stereotype that Japanese are smaller people than westerners, so they eat less.

However, when I visited Korea, the portions were Western size. Now I know that in Japan, the rule of retail business is to always charge maximum price and give the customer as little food as possible. Japanese restaurants are stingy with everything including condiments and this explains the miniature coffee creams at coffee shops and the refusal of some restaurants to fill drinks without ice to the rim of cups or offer ketchup with meals. Even the donuts in Japan are smaller than any other country's that I have seen.

I've seen none of this stinginess in Korea (or in Taiwan or China for that matter). This seems to be a Japanese phenomenon.
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RM1983



Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tokyo has a great variety of restaurants though. Many national cuisines covered, and you can get cheap food if you want (Korean tabehodai!).

The more mature areas I was thinking include the finer dining places, as well as there being more high end drinking places. Also in Tokyo you have more things like theatre, famous bands playing gigs and stuff like classical music.

A good example of this could be the Hostess weekender recently in Makihari Messe with Kraftwerk etc. You might struggle to find stuf like this in Seoul.

What a lot of organising that took to go to though, and it was very pricey!

In Seoul the types of nights I would go to were DJ nights organised by expats and Koreans, often in medium size bars or smallish clubs. Dont have much of that around here. Also more "fun" stuff like fancy-dress.

Actually I was in Busan recently and around the beach areas there I saw a few waygook-type places that have installed beer-pong tables. We watched
a couple of Americans playing this while we drank those Coronaritas or whatever they are called.
I thought this kind of reflected the nightlife of Korea rather well.
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thomthom



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The overall quality and variety of food (and drink) in Tokyo is world class and just incomparable with Seoul. Yes, the portions are small (sometimes as a consequence of expensiveness, other times just because the Japanese are in to haute cuisine), but the smallness of the portions does seem like a rather philistine thing to go on about! There are more Michelin starred restaurants in Tokyo than there are in London and Paris combined. I never had a bad meal in Tokyo. Never once did it fall below a 7/10, for the entire year. In Korea I frequently I had inedible meals with miscellaneous sea urchins or bizarre forest stuff.

I feel that comparing Korean to Japanese food is like comparing British food to French food. Yes, Korean food is underrated, and certainly Galbi is like a 'King of Dinners' which blows all of the competition out of the water with its wonderfullness (much like Sunday Roast Beef in the UK) . But overall, any time, any place, any day.. you're more like to encounter good food in Japan (and indeed France).

And don't get me started on the Cass, Hite, and that nail-varnish remover, soju. Wouldn't be so bad if there were other options. I imagine my well-travelled grandparents going to a typical restaurant in Seoul and trying to order a glass of wine... fat chance!
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thomthom



Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: sdf Reply with quote

Black_Beer_Man wrote:

I don't buy the argument that Tokyo is more suited than Seoul for an older crowd. You're just making excuses to defend Tokyo.


That's just a different (perhaps nicer) way of saying that Tokyo is more cultural. Generally I've seen a correlation between those who are culture vultures, fussy about music and food, interested in temples and museums and history, etc etc, and those who prefer Tokyo. By contrast I know so many people who are only in Korea to drink and socialise with American expats as if they were back home. AND (this is a big one) most people in Korea are there because the flights were free and the schools pay ridiculously generous money for totally unqualified teachers. In Tokyo, almost everybody WANTS to be there, and many are prepared to pay for their own flights and work for peanuts just for the chance.

I do love Seoul, too. I sound like I'm always Korea bashing. It's a great city but for depth of things to see and do compared to Tokyo... come on.
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RM1983



Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: sdf Reply with quote

thomthom wrote:
Black_Beer_Man wrote:

I don't buy the argument that Tokyo is more suited than Seoul for an older crowd. You're just making excuses to defend Tokyo.


That's just a different (perhaps nicer) way of saying that Tokyo is more cultural. Generally I've seen a correlation between those who are culture vultures, fussy about music and food, interested in temples and museums and history, etc etc, and those who prefer Tokyo. By contrast I know so many people who are only in Korea to drink and socialise with American expats as if they were back home. AND (this is a big one) most people in Korea are there because the flights were free and the schools pay ridiculously generous money for totally unqualified teachers. In Tokyo, almost everybody WANTS to be there, and many are prepared to pay for their own flights and work for peanuts just for the chance.

I do love Seoul, too. I sound like I'm always Korea bashing. It's a great city but for depth of things to see and do compared to Tokyo... come on.


Cost relates to age as well, older people usually make a bit more money than freshly graduated people.

Essentially if Tokyo were as cheap and accessible as Seoul then we wouldnt be having this discussion.

As it is, I do enjoy my nights out and my "cultural" life here, but my social life is much less active than it was in Korea.

Interesting discussion though. Surprised so many prefer Seoul nightlife to Tokyo
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nightsintodreams



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going out eating and drinkning in Korea takes it's toll on one's...how can I put this politely...
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For people who live within the Yamanote Line, I can see why they would like the nightlife.
My objection is that Tokyo is just too expensive, unless you find those cheaper nomihodai places like in Ochanomizu.
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RM1983



Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightsintodreams wrote:
Going out eating and drinkning in Korea takes it's toll on one's...how can I put this politely...


Was talking about this in Shin-Okubo on Sat. This one time I was literally in tears
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nightsintodreams



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stayed in a hostel when i visisted, the queue for the shower/toilet was unbearable.

I've never lived in Korea, but I went to Seoul on holiday once. I don't really know the city well enough to make a comparison to Tokyo, but I didn't really like the nightlife all that much.

The streets were full of loud Americans (mostly) and people scowling looking for trouble. On my first night in Korea, a Korean guy asked me where I was from, I said England, he then preceeded to tell me that his ex gf was British and stuck his middle finger up at me a couple inches away from my face. I've been to about 30 countries and never have I had that reaction to telling someone I was British.

I generally like going out to bars and clubs when on vacation, but the ex pat crowd in Korea was some of the worst I've ever seen. Perhaps that was because of the area of Seoul I was staying in.

I certainly prefer Tokyo, but can totally see why someone might prefer the nightlife of Korea.
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