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Fixing the birth rate
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G Cthulhu



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightsintodreams wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
And I'll pretend that your direct insult wasn't a ToS violation, yes?

Ah! The ever popular martial art of Igetzyu!


Threatening to tell on someone to the website moderators, the mark of a true martial arts expert.


You need to learn to quote properly, and you also need to learn that it wasn't a threat. I was pointing out that he was (yet again) degenerating into insults and accusations.
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nightsintodreams



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
nightsintodreams wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
And I'll pretend that your direct insult wasn't a ToS violation, yes?

Ah! The ever popular martial art of Igetzyu!


Threatening to tell on someone to the website moderators, the mark of a true martial arts expert.


You need to learn to quote properly, and you also need to learn that it wasn't a threat. I was pointing out that he was (yet again) degenerating into insults and accusations.


I could quote properly, but I'd rather be lazy and just click the quote button twice and be done with it.
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Maitoshi



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My word-fu is much stronger than yours!

Ha! Thanks for the laugh, Fifth Laughing
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G Cthulhu wrote:
rxk22 wrote:
Oh Cthulu, I thought you were just insufferable, but you are dishonest now too. I never said I jumped from art to art. You make it seem as though I never stuck at a single school for more than 6 months.


I can only go by what you write here.


Quote:
I'll pretend like that was a rudely worded question.


And I'll pretend that your direct insult wasn't a ToS violation, yes?


Quote:
I started doing BJJ and Muay Thai in 2004, and later that year I started training MMA. Yes, I have had breaks in that time period, but I have trained those styles pretty much for the past 10 years.


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I also got to train and help one of my fellow students win 2nd in the world in Kick boxing, as I was his primary sparring partner.


No such thing. There's no unified competition. It's a host of competing, commercial and non-commercial factions. If you're going to claim something then be specific and also let us know why it's important and relevant to the discussion. More to the point, take part in the discussion. All you're doing is simply gainsaying the points that suit you within contextless assertions and ignoring everything else.

You've been asked about the difference between violence and anger, and your apparent mis-understanding of those two terms in English.

You've completely ignored every point made about the various ways of looking at MA's and still just assert your particular history as seemingly being proof of something you're not willing to spell out as a position.

You're assuming a circular position in terms of referant points by claiming that only certain forms of MA's have any value and that you practice those points it somehow proves your assertion.

Etc.


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I helped one get into the UFC. I also placed in the WKA in MMA. As well as having won a regional grappling match in Japan.


Again, so what? Give it some context. Why is that important?


Quote:
I also did Kung fu for a few years, before stopping. Why? I found it wasn't as effectively trained as other arts.


What does that mean in English? Quite a few of your replies are barely literate and make it hard to understand if you're even saying anything in English. Are you saying that you didn't think it was practically effective/applicable for IRL? If so, say so. Or did you just think the training itself wasn't structured for (some thing you still haven't specified)?


Quote:
I also enjoy where you assume that I think that an 80 yo taking an MA is worthless. Bravo. They can still realistically drill and enable themselves to properly defends themselves. We have older MT and BJJ students, and for the most part they do train hard, there is nothing stopping a person from breaking a sweat.


Have another go at reading what was written. I can't help you if you don't understand what was being asked.


Quote:
Are you using to Kyudo for SD? No, that is not what it is intended for,a nd won't make you any better at SD. You are being silly now.


No, I'm pointing out that your position is circular and you're apparently unable to even understand that simple fact being pointed out to you.

Let me make it very clear for you yet again:

You're assuming a circular position. You're making value judgments based on what you've already decided are the criteria for making judgments: only X is Y, so therefore if not X then not Y. You're engaging in a simple logical fallacy.


Quote:
What is a locked position? At least use real terminology here.


I'm sorry that you don't understand common phrasing used in MA's the world over. Is it really the case that you've never heard the term? I'd have to doubt the breadth of experience you're claiming if you've never heard the term at all. To give an example (I'll use aikido terms just to annoy you & make you do some work), locking someone into a hold (try jujigarame or a reversed shinonage) and then throwing them from that position.


Quote:
I never said that you need to kill your opponent. In fact, I very clearly, and multiple times said that a take down can be done with out damaging an opponent.


And again, you need to learn to read what was written before you...


Quote:
You could be a little less blatant with your lies.


Deliberately mis-represent what was said. Oh, the irony!


Quote:
BTW do you have ANY martial arts experience?


Considerable. But I'm not about to get into a *beep* waving competition about it. Do you have any depth to your experience? You've certainly repeated your position several times now. Want to take a stab at answering some of (any of...) the substantive points made in response to your circular "argument" or will you just focus on how things don't meet your standards (whatever they might be) and that you only train in things that you like (whatever those might be)?

You're not getting any of this, are you? As I said, there's no point discussing this further. You're just going around in circles while lying and/or failing to understand what is being said.


1. I didn't write that I jumped around school wise. You assumed that, which I refuted. I guess you want to keep on assuming then?

2. Report me then, that is your prerogative.

3. So what? That is the same as in boxing, but no one is going to say which organization and raise a fuss about it. *yawn*

4. Violence vs anger. I don't feel that violence stems solely from anger. Sorry that I don't feel that way. People act in violence for any and no reason. People protecting others is not out of anger, or it can be not out of anger. Sometimes people commit violence out jealousy, curiosity, boredom or for the heck of it. What's your point again? You really like to go after obnoxiously small and often unrelated points. I ignore them, as I feel they have no bearing on this discussion.

5. What do you want me to spell out? You give out vague assertions, then demand a specific answer?

IMHO a MA that is supposedly SD focused, yet doesn't enable the practitioner to defend themselves effectively, is not an effective MA.
How does one know this? MAs are living, if one is not on occasion going against someone who isn't complying tot he techs, then the art is dead. It is not a living breathing art where one can measure and test the effectiveness of it.

What context do you want? I trained extensively with someone who eventually made it to the UFC. If you can't figure that out, we are done here. Don't feign indignity.

You know what I meant with the Kung Fu statement. No need to be pedantic constantly. Do you teach English, do you have no intuition, how do you understand any of your students?

No, it is not circular. You are being obtuse here. What then constitutes effective self defense? As, until do do so, I can not answer your vague line of questioning.

My mistake on locked position. I though you meant it in reference to the clinch. My apologies.

Again, quote me where I said that taking someone down was somehow a killing or crippling blow in some way. I in fact wrote to Maitoshi that you can take someone down and not injure them, or have little chance of injury.

Ok, so you call me out on my credentials, and then have the gall to act indignant when I ask you Rolling Eyes
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maitoshi wrote:



I completely agree! O-sensei would be disappointed with what happens in some dojos. The style attracted people from other movements in the 60s and 70s. That may have been partly to blame.


He would be sad, but he also set up his system to fail. As too many people saw the end result, and assumed that they could effortlessly get there. Without the proverbial blood sweat and tears, one can not get proficient at a MA. People really missed the lesson there imho, he should have been clearer that Aikido was the end, the all the journey.

When I was training for MMA, my Thai clinch sucked, and my coaches noticed it. I had to do clinch training everyday for weeks to get it right. It was grueling awful , hateful practice, but it made my clinch much better.

In the opposite, in BJJ take downs aren't a priority. To the point where it has become a joke in some ways. In order have better take downs a lot of BJJers train TDs. But since many don't train them on a higher level, ie spend weeks drilling and trying them out, there TDs are rather lacking for the most part.

This guys story is a good reason to be wary of MA coaches, as the burden is on them to show the effectiveness of the art. "You must train 10 years in order to fully understand out art, then you'll be aan effective MAist, is BS, and a sellout response imho. http://www.karateforums.com/the-victim-of-a-mcdojo-speaks-out-vt2944.html

I do hope you school is a good one, and I hope the best in your training. If you found a good Aikido school, then great for you. You found a diamond in the rough.
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Maitoshi



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't practiced in any formal way for over ten years. Both of my senseis have passed on. Haven't really sought out another yet. Maybe there's another old guy out here in the sticks with me who can teach me a thing or two. BTW, by "old," I'm talking 80s or 90s. Those
Are the guys you've got to watch out for. More experience and real wisdom in their little finger than I can hope to gain in a lifetime.
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maitoshi wrote:
I haven't practiced in any formal way for over ten years. Both of my senseis have passed on. Haven't really sought out another yet. Maybe there's another old guy out here in the sticks with me who can teach me a thing or two. BTW, by "old," I'm talking 80s or 90s. Those
Are the guys you've got to watch out for. More experience and real wisdom in their little finger than I can hope to gain in a lifetime.




Well those guys DID spend a life time learning MAs. That is how they got so good. Well one of the reasons. I'd love to be able to point you out to a good school somewhere, but I don't know of any.

I did Karate in the US. It is interesting, the people who did it in the 80's seemed to have done a different art completely. Same with TKD, the way it too is taught is radically different to how it was just 252 years ago.
Yes, you don't need to spar like a maniac and get hurt, but you also shouldn't just dance around in pajamas and call it Karate or what have you
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Maitoshi



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't agree more! Hate getting hit in the face or hitting someone else in the face. Hurts either way and the pain seems to linger more and more, the older I get. Wish I were 20 again ...
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you can train right with out ruining your body. In the old days we didn't know any better. Now, we do. I don't take full contact strikes to the head at all now. Just no reason too, unless I was going to compete in MMA/Kickboxing.

I don't do Judo, but I do do take downs, and being in my 30's landing sucks way more than it did when I was 22.
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Shimokitazawa



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rxk22 wrote:
Yeah, you can train right with out ruining your body. In the old days we didn't know any better. Now, we do. I don't take full contact strikes to the head at all now. Just no reason too, unless I was going to compete in MMA/Kickboxing.

I don't do Judo, but I do do take downs, and being in my 30's landing sucks way more than it did when I was 22.


I agree.

I remember the first time I took a hit to the head and I just about was knocked out. I didn't want anymore of that. I walked out of the ring. If you're not a pro fighter, or even an amateur fighter fighting bouts, what's the point? You're just damaging your brain. And concussions are serious shit.

Yet, I enjoy the grappling where you can tap when your opponent has won. It can be very strategic and I like that aspect of it. You don't need to knock your opponent out when you're just practicing or trying to enjoy it.
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, you don't need full contact to the head. Just doesn't need to happen.
Though once or twice in your life, it is good to do. To see what you can do and how you handle it. Esp if you train for SD.

Oh yeah man, I love grappling. I started in 2004 in the US, back when my state had like maybe 6 Black Belts. Was amazing seeing the sport evolve and grow so much. And I do like being able to go mostly full out. You are able to see what you can hit in a realistic situation. 99.99% of Aikidoka have no idea, and they have never experienced this level of intensity.

You are in Vietnam? Must be interesting, as the sport is still so new there I know guys in China who have to either get a coach from the major cities, or go there to get promoted.
In Japan, the ranks get weird too. I have rolled with white belts who are purple or black in their skill sets. I also have a friend who is a BB level BJJ guy, and he JUST got his brown, after being a purple for 6-7 years.
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budgie



Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:45 am    Post subject: Back on topic: Reply with quote

I've given a lot of thought and here's my take.

The birth rate is not too low. It's normal for a wealthy, non-immigrant nation. The problem is it used to be too high.

Only three generations ago Japan was a 3rd world country recovering from war. As with other poor asian countries people had large families.

Thanks to rapid modernization - largely fueled by the higher birthrate - sanitation, healthcare, longevity and all kinds of benefits ensued. Those generations are still alive today thanks to healthy living and the longest lifespans in the world.

However thanks to that very modernity, following generations have not needed such a high birthrate. This has created rather than the usual demographic pyramid, a kind of kite-shaped graph where the biggest bulge is in the upper half of the age spectrum.

Now we all know the problems this will cause in the next 20-30 years: the shortage of younger workers will mean fewer people paying for more pensioners. It will mean country towns and family farms dying off. It will see the economy shrink in line with the population - but really only relative to neighboring countries. At home the living standards will remain high. And in the longer term it will be good for Japan.

Why? Those oldies will die. They will be replaced not by another glut of oldies but by the smaller crop of post-boomers that are coming up today. The birthrate will stabilize - it can't go much lower unless people stop having kids altogether. By the end of the century the population will be around 80-90 million and younger again.

Yes the economy will be 'smaller' on the world stage, but at home everyone will have more living space and a bigger share of resources. Agriculture will have been reformed by then, with corporations running larger farms as the mom & pop operations will have been sold off to said cooperatives. Farming might actually become an attractive occupation for younger people if it means stead corporate employment. Manufacturing will still be the powerhouse it its, innovation and technology will be the same. More women in the workforce too. We won't live to see it but these are all inevitable outcomes on the present cause.

Shame it's gonna hurt in the meantime.
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, the pop will eventually bottom out. Hopefully. I think in the long run it will be a positive for Japan. As they won't have to support tons of rural areas via workfare.

Agreed on how a country develops. Japan doesn't need 120M people. This is not the 1950's, where you have 50k people working at a single tire plant. You have factories with a few hundred at most. I think Japan was able to manhandle their land's carrying capacity, and have an artificially high pop now.

I also don't see any benefits to mass immigration. As really they are willing to settle for a lower SOL. Which in the end doesn't solve the underlying problems.

I don't want pop growth here, as that is just silly. Like the Happiness Realization Part back in 2010 wanting huge immigration and a pop of 300+M. But a fertility rate closer to 2.0 would be ideal, as the pop deflation would be less sharp
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Shimokitazawa



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always thought that it was better for me (us) if Japan just continued being a xenophobic, racist country with little knowledge of or contact with the outside world. Because the Japanese isolation and nationalism gives me a job here, and a good job at that.

In my view, I hope that Japan never opens up to the outside world.

Leave Planet Japan as it is.
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Shimokitazawa



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Back on topic: Reply with quote

budgie wrote:
I've given a lot of thought and here's my take.

The birth rate is not too low. It's normal for a wealthy, non-immigrant nation. The problem is it used to be too high.

Only three generations ago Japan was a 3rd world country recovering from war. As with other poor asian countries people had large families.

Thanks to rapid modernization - largely fueled by the higher birthrate - sanitation, healthcare, longevity and all kinds of benefits ensued. Those generations are still alive today thanks to healthy living and the longest lifespans in the world.


Nice analysis, budgie.

Too bad our generation isn't of that era. The future might not be so bad for the Japanese 80 years from now.
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