|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
 Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:12 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| rxk22 wrote: |
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| And I once managed to nikyo~sankyo a good wrestler off me after pinning his right arm against my chest and twisting to my left while in the guard position (I called it "Bye bye nage" LOL). |
Thing is, Aikido doesn't in general do ground work, and you need a lot of grappling awareness to pull off subs on the ground. Wristlocks can work on the ground, but you have to be able to set them up. But that is a BJJ move, essentially this, maybe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cWXRmE47G0
You can hit stuff, like you did on the wrestler, but how many Aikidoka actually cross train, or even spar? |
FWIW I'm not an aikidoka, though I did do maybe a year (just a session every few weeks or so, as my school visits allowed) of Daito ryu.
The technique in that clip is very similar to hiza gatame (in judo), and there are parallels to aikido's ikkyo, in that it is an elbow-straightening lock. The technique I did however was as I say more like sankyo, applied with both my hands to the opponent's right hand, twisting to my left rather than to my right and thus opening up space and getting his weight off me and propelling him onto his back and away (rather than me twisting to the right and adding my weight on top of him with my left knee), which was my aim, as he was the better grappler generally. Basically pin and scrunch his hand around anticlockwise on your left pec, his elbow will lift some in the process if you are still needing to get your left hand/palm under (following a sort of nikyo pinning and initial turning with your right hand) to grasp the back of his hand to crank it on some more.
TBH it was cheating (in the context of judo, which doesn't allow wrist locks), but desperate times and all that, as I was getting puffed from holding him off and had only got him onto his back once before LOL. He was like (literally said) "Holy ....!" when the lock came on though and flew gratifyingly far to escape it.
OMG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxc6uoaso7Q |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Lamarr"]
That is a problem, but that's more down to the practitioner than the art. Giving a good, committed attack, with strong balance should be the aim. Part of it is that people are afraid of getting thrown, so they either hold back, or "go for it" too much and just throw themselves down, or go off balance very easily (though that might just be down to their level).
| rxk22 wrote: |
All the peace, love, harmony and living with nature stuff can give a skewed impression of it, and appeal to a certain type of person that is less interested in martial efficacy. I'd advise anyone to observe the real masters of it, and spend some time training in it first, under a variety of teachers, before making judgements. I've trained with people who do other, grappling arts, who seemed to find the aikido techniques and mental training useful for their other practice. |
I am sorry that is a cop out. The art is also very responsible for how you turn out. Yes I have see terrible MMAers, but almost person for person people who do MMA can easily beat even long term Aikioka.
That is a discussion in of it's self. As the art impacts who you can train with and how
One shouldn't have to go searching for a half way decent Aikido dojo. If a school or system is no good, one shouldn't have to spend years wasting their time. If it is effective, it will become apparent very soon. Telling someone they need to spend years training and finding different schools, that is just unacceptable, and it is a myth. I sued to do TMAs, and thought the same. It really comes down to the fact that most TMAs emphasize ineffective tech, and the implementation of the tech
I have dabbled in a bit of AIkido. I do like some of the wrist locks. Doesn't mean I want to spend 6 years training them. When in 2 years, you can become very effective on the ground in BJJ. You could have reasonable standup via MT, and decent take downs and defense via wrestling in another 2 years. In the end in less time to takes to get good at Aikido, you could become a VERY effective martial artist.
Unless you are doing it for fun and not SD, Aikido and many other TMAs are simply not worth doing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok right on. OCC what MAs have you done?
Ok, hiza gatame, right on. It is a decent move from guard. Some people make it a high % move. I used to like it too. Right on man.
But for every time you've been able to hit a sweep on a grappler, there are tons of TMAists who have gotten wrecked at a BJJ/MMA gym. I was one of those TMAers. Back in the early 2000's I lost to a BJJer. I had done Kung Fu, and wrestled in HS. I went for a take down and got guillotine choked. Was nothing I could do. My Karate friends got wrecked too.
Was an amazing time. Challenge matches were common, and many TMAer had no clue in how to fight. I sparring with a Kung Fu guy that fought out of a deep horse stance, and he also stood totally side ways to me. Guy was just asking to get his leg wrecked.
I am kinda disappointed in Judo. Too many rules, and it's hurting the Judoka. Upper body throws are great and all, but to ban all leg based and shot based take down is just silly. Many Judoka can't even stop a simple double or single leg.
Welll Fluffy, seems I can't quote messages from you, and only you.....  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rxk22 wrote: |
I am sorry that is a cop out. The art is also very responsible for how you turn out. Yes I have see terrible MMAers, but almost person for person people who do MMA can easily beat even long term Aikioka. That is a discussion in of it's self. As the art impacts who you can train with and how
One shouldn't have to go searching for a half way decent Aikido dojo. If a school or system is no good, one shouldn't have to spend years wasting their time. If it is effective, it will become apparent very soon. Telling someone they need to spend years training and finding different schools, that is just unacceptable, and it is a myth. I sued to do TMAs, and thought the same. It really comes down to the fact that most TMAs emphasize ineffective tech, and the implementation of the tech
I have dabbled in a bit of AIkido. I do like some of the wrist locks. Doesn't mean I want to spend 6 years training them. When in 2 years, you can become very effective on the ground in BJJ. You could have reasonable standup via MT, and decent take downs and defense via wrestling in another 2 years. In the end in less time to takes to get good at Aikido, you could become a VERY effective martial artist.
Unless you are doing it for fun and not SD, Aikido and many other TMAs are simply not worth doing. |
It depends what you want to get out of a martial art. That's why I recommend that, if you want to do fighting, don't do aikido, not on its own anyway. The purpose of aikido is to avoid fighting. The idea of a "do" is that it's a way of living. It goes beyond practising throwing and pinning techniques in a dojo for an hour. The techniques are a vehicle for developing the attitude of mind I was describing.
Self-defence is more about perceiving dangers and threats, avoiding them and not getting into it in the first place, and not simply just techniques for throwing and immoblizing people. That's only part of it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wrote a reply but it got deleted/
Sorry to sound mean, but why bother doing Aikiodo 3-6 hours a week? You can take a few self defense classes, and if you need life guidance find a mentor. Aikido seems like an ineffective way to learn self dense and learn how to live your life.
I did a Karate-do style for a few years. I do like having a Karate base in my striking, which is heavy MT influenced now. But the advice and situational awareness can be easily gained via the internet and a few SD courses. You don't need to study an art for 6 years to be able to defend yourself.
Aikido is not an effective SD style. It takes too long, and the training and most of the techniques aren't practiced to work in a real life situation. No way could an Aikidoka with 2-5 years of training deal with an attack. I don't seem parrying full on punches(that the don't train to deal with), and then subduing the attacker.
I had two cases where I had to be in a fight. One I was at a party. My friend, the host, had a few party crashers. Whichw was OK, but one started getting anrgy, he pushed my friend down, and was going to attack him. We were on a 3rd floor balcony btw. Easily a 30ft drop. My friend is 5'6" and like 130lbs. No way was he going to be OK. So I used my wrestling skill sto push the guy up against the wall. I then used BJJ to put him in a standing arm triangle choke, where he couldn't attack anyone. I then proceeded to choke him out. Which ended the conflict. He was OK after he came too, and was escorted out by his friends.
Aikido, or even most traditional MAs would have been worthless in that situation. As wristlocking him would have been very hard to actually pull off. While getting in a striking exchange would have been a violent fight, on top of endangering all involved.
Yes, you can learn how to stay out of fights, but that is pretty easy to be fair. It shouldn;t take a long time to learn how to be aware, and safe.
If you like AIkido, because you like how it is, or you enjoy the tradition, that is fine. Good for you, but don't for a second pretend that it is an effective MA. As someone may actually believe it, and train it, and when perhaps they have to defend themselves, they won;t be able to.
To me, it is Yoga that has a Hakima instead. To treat it otherwise is dangerous, as you are giving people a false sense of security. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rxk22 wrote: |
| Aikido is not an effective SD style. It takes too long, and the training and most of the techniques aren't practiced to work in a real life situation. No way could an Aikidoka with 2-5 years of training deal with an attack. I don't seem parrying full on punches(that the don't train to deal with), and then subduing the attacker. |
It's very effective. You can read stories of senior masters using it "for real", when people were trying to kill them. Aikido is derived from arts used for combat, in a life-and-death situation. It does take a long time to master, but it's a very effective self-defence if need be.
It's questionable anyway whether someone with 2-5 years of training in any art would be able to use it to survive a life-and-death situation.
| rxk22 wrote: |
Good for you, but don't for a second pretend that it is an effective MA. As someone may actually believe it, and train it, and when perhaps they have to defend themselves, they won;t be able to.
To me, it is Yoga that has a Hakima instead. To treat it otherwise is dangerous, as you are giving people a false sense of security. |
You really need to spend time practising and receiving the techniques from a senior teacher to get a better understanding to compare it with other arts you've done, and whether it's effective or not. It may be that the people you've seen doing it were at a lower level, or there was something wrong with the way they were training.
A good teacher is essential. Beyond that, a martial art is only as good or bad as the practitioner. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Ok right on. OCC what MAs have you done? |
I'm not sure what OCC means, but the first martial art I did was judo (as a kid) for a year or two, and then mainly Shotokan at uni, though I dabbled in all sorts of stuff then and since, including aiki, Wing Chun, escrima, Choi Kwang Do, and Shorinji Kempo.
The point I was trying to make with the wristlocks in groundwork is that there would seem more opportunity to realistically apply them there than in standing work. I've never liked aiki's insistence on mainly wrist grabs (OK so it's based on a squabble for who draws a sword first, but...), to remain unrelinquished and unreleased even on pain of death, and of course done with almost straight static non-retracting, non-pushing arms all the time. Thai boxing clinches, head grabs, judo holds, indeed armlocks of the opponent's own actively sought, etc? Perish the thought and the opponent who thinks so!
I'm sure pick-ups of a sort are allowed in judo, as I have a whole book or two of them somewhere (in the Ippon Masterclass series). It's the Russian sambo influence on judo, and they've had a fair bit of success with them. I'm not sure of the exact rules though (probably there's a time limit of say 5 seconds in which to hold the opponents trousers while entering and attempting the throw, and I doubt one can use the inside of the trouser bottoms or grab the exposed foot, and so on and so forth).
I'm in two minds about judo. Obviously if you're the athletic type it makes sense to try to twist out of throw rather than possibly land on the back of your head (on a concrete street I mean), but to make one's front side (tummy) the safe escape position from groundwork seems a little risky. Yes, you want to see the ground coming up at you, but to turn your back on an opponent who's on top of you?! Maybe the thinking is that it's a prelude to getting to your feet, but you can scoot back from the guard and achieve the same while keeping the opponent in sight.
Mind you, top judoka get reasonably good at applying submissions because they only get about 20 seconds or so in which to effect one. I heard about a challenge once in which apparently one of Britain's best ever took on a BJJ champ (after saying BJJ was all well and good but wouldn't fare too well against a genuine champion judoka), and guess what, the judo guy won. Well, I say a BJJ guy, but who knows, he could've just been a guy with a badge on his gi who asked an innocuous question LOL. Hard to tell when it's gossip from a friend of a friend. Made me think though.
Heheh, that's how good my defense is, that you can't even quote from my posts ROFL. Maybe you did something wrong with the BB codes? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lamarr wrote: |
It's very effective. You can read stories of senior masters using it "for real", when people were trying to kill them. Aikido is derived from arts used for combat, in a life-and-death situation. It does take a long time to master, but it's a very effective self-defence if need be.
It's questionable anyway whether someone with 2-5 years of training in any art would be able to use it to survive a life-and-death situation.
You really need to spend time practising and receiving the techniques from a senior teacher to get a better understanding to compare it with other arts you've done, and whether it's effective or not. It may be that the people you've seen doing it were at a lower level, or there was something wrong with the way they were training.
A good teacher is essential. Beyond that, a martial art is only as good or bad as the practitioner. |
I would say it is not. Also many people in the self defense orientated MAs would agree with me. As with most MAs, Aikido has stories of people using it effectively, which could be true, or not. Thing is, have you known anyone who has used it in a SD situation? I don't know of anyone using it effectively. Not purely Aikido. I can use wrist locks, and small circle JJ, as I have years of other practice, and I can fall back into clinching/TDs/Striking. While an Aikidoka would only have the lock. Outide of that, they have nothing, and can't fall back onto anything.
2-5 year? If you can't get good at an art in that time, you are wasting your time and effort. In 5 years, you should be highly proficient. Be it striking, or grappling. You should be able to be use them in an open situation within 6 months. I've known of people doing BJJ for 6 weeks and winning fights.
What does receiving techniques mean? Is it different than having them done to you like in BJJ, or drilling them? I find that is an odd way to describe them.
I think the problem isn't me not looking hard enough for good Aikidoka. It's the fact that the style is flawed, and doesn't produce good Martial Artists. Hence most serious MAist do some Aikido with some Aikidoka, and are usually disappointed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
I'm not sure what OCC means, but the first martial art I did was judo (as a kid) for a year or two, and then mainly Shotokan at uni, though I dabbled in all sorts of stuff then and since, including aiki, Wing Chun, escrima, Choi Kwang Do, and Shorinji Kempo.
The point I was trying to make with the wristlocks in groundwork is that there would seem more opportunity to realistically apply them there than in standing work. I've never liked aiki's insistence on mainly wrist grabs (OK so it's based on a squabble for who draws a sword first, but...), to remain unrelinquished and unreleased even on pain of death, and of course done with almost straight static non-retracting, non-pushing arms all the time. Thai boxing clinches, head grabs, judo holds, indeed armlocks of the opponent's own actively sought, etc? Perish the thought and the opponent who thinks so!
I'm sure pick-ups of a sort are allowed in judo, as I have a whole book or two of them somewhere (in the Ippon Masterclass series). It's the Russian sambo influence on judo, and they've had a fair bit of success with them. I'm not sure of the exact rules though (probably there's a time limit of say 5 seconds in which to hold the opponents trousers while entering and attempting the throw, and I doubt one can use the inside of the trouser bottoms or grab the exposed foot, and so on and so forth).
I'm in two minds about judo. Obviously if you're the athletic type it makes sense to try to twist out of throw rather than possibly land on the back of your head (on a concrete street I mean), but to make one's front side (tummy) the safe escape position from groundwork seems a little risky. Yes, you want to see the ground coming up at you, but to turn your back on an opponent who's on top of you?! Maybe the thinking is that it's a prelude to getting to your feet, but you can scoot back from the guard and achieve the same while keeping the opponent in sight.
Mind you, top judoka get reasonably good at applying submissions because they only get about 20 seconds or so in which to effect one. I heard about a challenge once in which apparently one of Britain's best ever took on a BJJ champ (after saying BJJ was all well and good but wouldn't fare too well against a genuine champion judoka), and guess what, the judo guy won. Well, I say a BJJ guy, but who knows, he could've just been a guy with a badge on his gi who asked an innocuous question LOL. Hard to tell when it's gossip from a friend of a friend. Made me think though.
Heheh, that's how good my defense is, that you can't even quote from my posts ROFL. Maybe you did something wrong with the BB codes? |
Sorry, meant OOC out of curiosity.
Nice background. I went around a lot of styles before settling in on BJJ/MT.
I agree, wristlocks can actually be applied from the gaurd. While standing, the other person has to literally let you do it to them. That or the difference in skill is significant.
But Aikido is from the 1940's, why ANY emphasis on stopping someone from drawing a sword? Which adds to Aikido's silliness.
I like Judo, but I too think it has gotten too lawyerish. Which is why the Russian style of it, and Sambo are so fascinating. They focus on what works, as opposed to what Judo should look like.
Most regular Judoka I have rolled with, ie they did in in HS and college, are like a low BJJ blue on the ground. They are heavy and hard to move, but they usually have poor offense, as they go for a move, and if they fail, oh well as the standups in Judo are fast. Unlike in BJJ where losing position is serious.
While BJJ tends to have terrible TDs and TDDs, tas they just don't have the time to practice them. Thank goodness I wrestled in HS.
Haha, nice. I have to preview the post, then I can quote. Take that, you and your newaza! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rxk22 wrote: |
| As with most MAs, Aikido has stories of people using it effectively, which could be true, or not. Thing is, have you known anyone who has used it in a SD situation? I don't know of anyone using it effectively. Not purely Aikido. I can use wrist locks, and small circle JJ, as I have years of other practice, and I can fall back into clinching/TDs/Striking. While an Aikidoka would only have the lock. Outide of that, they have nothing, and can't fall back onto anything. |
So you're basically saying the founder of aikido and several of his senior students, who went on to become very high-level teachers and practitioners, starting their own schools which have spread internationally, are making these stories up.
You really don't know what you're talking about. I'd suggest you go to a dojo and spend time receiving techniques (look up the Japanese word for that, or take some lessons). Perhaps even challenge a senior teacher if you still doubt its effectiveness.
Be brave though, and make sure your health/sports insurance is comprehensive and up-to-date. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| But Aikido is from the 1940's, why ANY emphasis on stopping someone from drawing a sword? Which adds to Aikido's silliness. |
Well, if you take its origins as being more in stuff like Daito-ryu (Aiki)jujustso, founded by that great master Takeda Sokaku (you know, the one who IIRC was so great he didn't just avoid or walk away from a bunch of labourers who began taunting him about his sword or skirt or whatever, but instead killed at least a couple of them and wounded several more when things somehow degenerated into a one-on-gang, life-or-death brawl after he'd drawn his sword and begun slicing and dicing), then you can see why the sword was an important influence. But yeah, imagine if those labourers had had a gun or two LOL. I'll need to dig out my box of Fighting Arts International mags and find the stories on him and other more combative aiki guys (Chiba sensei is a name that springs to mind, though I wonder if all the "yakuza" whose arms he broke were just old duffers shuffling forward with a pen rather than a knife and simply to ask for an autograph or sign a check or bill).
Me, I once challenged Christian Tissier to a death match and it wasn't pretty. I shot in on his dodgy knee and twisted it around like this: https://youtu.be/aH6i6qJncSI?t=88 . He was screaming for me to stop, but as it was in French I didn't understand and just carried on wrenching. It was only when armed gendarmes arrived and tasered me into submission that the fight was over, otherwise he'd have really been in trouble!
Talking of language questions or points, the important term and notion that Lamarr is referring to is I believe 'uke', but you only really need to worry about that if a guy asks you to step into a toilet rather than outside.   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lamarr wrote: |
So you're basically saying the founder of aikido and several of his senior students, who went on to become very high-level teachers and practitioners, starting their own schools which have spread internationally, are making these stories up.
You really don't know what you're talking about. I'd suggest you go to a dojo and spend time receiving techniques (look up the Japanese word for that, or take some lessons). Perhaps even challenge a senior teacher if you still doubt its effectiveness.
Be brave though, and make sure your health/sports insurance is comprehensive and up-to-date. |
Yes. Yes I am. MAs history is full of BS, lies, and myths. Unless it was documented, I doubt it happened anywhere near how you heard it did.
Judo has tons of lies in it's history. Tons of stories about Judoka defeating "Russian Wrestlers" on a ship.
Or Karate with Okinawan Karateka killing samurai by punching through their armor.
Aikido is just newer, so the lies are more updated.
Be brave? I back in my day did many the challenge fight. AIkidoka had the least to offer. As even the sloppiest TKD style would have some sort of sparring. Even if the % was low, there was always the worry about kicking kicked in the head by a spinning kick. WIth Aikido, there never was a worry.
You giys don't spar. Don't train realistically. Your Uke's just fall down or do whatever you want them to,
You can't handle real strikes. ie people throwing legit combos.
Nor can you handle a thai clinch. Nor actual grappling.
Also, you can't handle kicks to the legs.
I have been there, and have seen how laughable Aikido is. How about this, go to a BJJ school. Just one time, and see how you do. I bet even someone with 6 months of training would wreck you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rxk22 wrote: |
| Lamarr wrote: |
So you're basically saying the founder of aikido and several of his senior students, who went on to become very high-level teachers and practitioners, starting their own schools which have spread internationally, are making these stories up.
You really don't know what you're talking about. I'd suggest you go to a dojo and spend time receiving techniques (look up the Japanese word for that, or take some lessons). Perhaps even challenge a senior teacher if you still doubt its effectiveness.
Be brave though, and make sure your health/sports insurance is comprehensive and up-to-date. |
Yes. Yes I am. MAs history is full of BS, lies, and myths. Unless it was documented, I doubt it happened anywhere near how you heard it did.
Judo has tons of lies in it's history. Tons of stories about Judoka defeating "Russian Wrestlers" on a ship.
Or Karate with Okinawan Karateka killing samurai by punching through their armor.
Aikido is just newer, so the lies are more updated.
Be brave? I back in my day did many the challenge fight. AIkidoka had the least to offer. As even the sloppiest TKD style would have some sort of sparring. Even if the % was low, there was always the worry about kicking kicked in the head by a spinning kick. WIth Aikido, there never was a worry.
You giys don't spar. Don't train realistically. Your Uke's just fall down or do whatever you want them to,
You can't handle real strikes. ie people throwing legit combos.
Nor can you handle a thai clinch. Nor actual grappling.
Also, you can't handle kicks to the legs.
I have been there, and have seen how laughable Aikido is. How about this, go to a BJJ school. Just one time, and see how you do. I bet even someone with 6 months of training would wreck you. |
You sound like you're going to go postal any minute mate. I'll leave it at that and let you calm down for a bit. If you lost control like this in a real life-and-death combat situation, you'd be dead in no time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
Well, if you take its origins as being more in stuff like Daito-ryu (Aiki)jujustso, founded by that great master Takeda Sokaku (you know, the one who IIRC was so great he didn't just avoid or walk away from a bunch of labourers who began taunting him about his sword or skirt or whatever, but instead killed at least a couple of them and wounded several more when things somehow degenerated into a one-on-gang, life-or-death brawl after he'd drawn his sword and begun slicing and dicing), then you can see why the sword was an important influence. But yeah, imagine if those labourers had had a gun or two LOL. I'll need to dig out my box of Fighting Arts International mags and find the stories on him and other more combative aiki guys (Chiba sensei is a name that springs to mind, though I wonder if all the "yakuza" whose arms he broke were just old duffers shuffling forward with a pen rather than a knife and simply to ask for an autograph or sign a check or bill).
Me, I once challenged Christian Tissier to a death match and it wasn't pretty. I shot in on his dodgy knee and twisted it around like this: https://youtu.be/aH6i6qJncSI?t=88 . He was screaming for me to stop, but as it was in French I didn't understand and just carried on wrenching. It was only when armed gendarmes arrived and tasered me into submission that the fight was over, otherwise he'd have really been in trouble!
Talking of language questions or points, the important term and notion that Lamarr is referring to is I believe 'uke', but you only really need to worry about that if a guy asks you to step into a toilet rather than outside. |
True, Aikido is a mixture of AikiJitsus and the such. But it was assembled in 1942 or so. Which still is weird that there is emphasis on not letting the other guy draw a sword. Wonder if it just adds to the fact that Aikido is more cult than MA? And swords and Bushido type stuff makes for more fun for the people doing it?
Aikijitsu has a more legit background. But like Aikido, suffers from fluffy cloud practitioners Would love to hear the stories btw.
Did you really roll with Christian Tissier? I have messed with some Aikidoka before. Tehy end up in the fetal position, and desperately try for a wristlock. Do you have any Aikidoka stories?
Oh the Uke. I know what he means. It just is an incredibly silly concept. Receiving means, just be totally limp and let the other guy get the tech. Which is Ok, if you're just practicing it. But it has to be dne against resistance, otherwise it is just LARPing.
BTW LOL at being asked to be a Uke in a public bathroom |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lamarr
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 190
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| Chiba sensei is a name that springs to mind, though I wonder if all the "yakuza" whose arms he broke were just old duffers shuffling forward with a pen rather than a knife and simply to ask for an autograph or sign a check or bill |
I presume you mean Chiba sensei of aikido. I don't know about him breaking loads of yakuza arms, that sounds like another one of those myths. There was one story direct from him where he threw down a guy causing a commotion in a nightclub in Paris IIRC. It turned out this guy was a member of some Parisian gang, though I think he said he only found that out later.
He taught aikido in the UK in the 60s and 70s, and continued to come back after that to do courses. I heard a story from someone on one of these courses, which was held in a school gym with those wooden climbing frames against the wall. Apparently he was throwing a guy up and down the mat, demonstrating technique, and threw him into the climbing frame. The guy's skull was fractured.
However, according to rxk22, our resident big-testicled hard man, martial arts know-all and Bruce Lee wannabe, these stories are all lies and bullshit (even if they're true, they're still bullshit). Aikido is just for fairies and fruitcakes. Funny, if that's the case, I thought it would have suited him down to the ground |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
