Job Discussion Forums

[Big John Stud]

Tamago86 wrote:

The only reason you all are *beep* so much and feel so upset is you're all trying to match your own culture and your own use of words and sociolinguistic terminology with that of the Japanese. Japanese don't imply anything offensive when they say "gaijin", opposite of what someone implies when they say "hey darkie" or something like that. Please stop trying to find matches for it, and realize that there are cultures out there besides your own that actually have different points of views than your's (wow!) And if you can't accept that they don't mean you any harm when they say gaijin then that's your own damn problem and a problem you'll spend your entire life fighting in Japan, for nothing. And while you're all whining and moaning about your over-sensitive issues take a look at how other asians are treated in Japan compared to you, many Koreans are lucky to work in factories and most employers won't even look at Chinese people. *This* is true racism, not the kind that stems from English teachers with a lack of understand or willingness to understand the people of the country they're living and working in.

Very well put! You are a true traveler!

[Nismo]

[Big John Stud]

Nismo wrote:

[I've studied Japanese language and culture for 3 years as a major, lived in the heart of Tokyo, and attended a Japanese Uni ranked #4 in the nation. I realize I have more to learn, but I am not naive. So, are you suggesting we refer to non-Americans as such? Think about the term F.O.B. - should we shout it at every asian person who doesn't dress like a typical American? Just for the record, I've been called a Euro in America before, and I didn't take it lightly. I believe that it was used like, "Hold up, we don't want no Euro in the picture," as I was standing around in the background.

If you have been here for so long than I feel sorry for you. How in the world could you have lasted so long and not realize being called gaijin is no big deal? Think about it people are getting killed for being a different colour. Also you make a joke out of it, and gaijin looses its power. You cry over it, and now you have given everyone so much power over you. No one calls me gaijin because I call myself gaijin. In fact when I do call myself a gaijin, everyone laughs. Bottom line worry about something that is worth worrying about like this unjust war in Iraq!

[JimDunlop2]

BigJohnStud: At the risk of sounding harsh, I have only one response to your last two comments.

It's your choice if you wish to refer to yourself as gaijin. The same way it's a choice for African-Americans to call each other "n!gga" thanks to hip-hop culture. Like someone earlier on pointed out with the Jackie Chan flick -- try going into a predominantly black neighbourhood and saying that to someone and see what happens.

All what calling yourself a "gaijin" and teaching your kids songs about it does, is it reinforces existing stereotypes. It makes it "OK" to discriminate against you and others. It does a great disservice to many. Are you causing the word to lose its power by laughing at it? Maybe you are. But the attitude and opinions others have already formed about you still remain. You have done nothing to change anyone.

Too many people living in Japan don't give a flying crap how they portray themselves. They are happy with having a flipant, indifferent attitude towards how others view them. Whether you want to admit it or not, and much less yet, whether you like it or not, you are an ambassador for your country. Your peers and successors are judged by your conduct. Many times have I heard from private language schools who hestitate to hire (or outright refuse to hire) a Canadian, or Brit, or American (or whoever) because they've had a negative experience (or worse yet, several negative experiences), hence concluding that ALL people from that country must be like that.

I would not be surprised if some time in the future, a bunch of students will be laughing at me one day, calling me "gaijin" and when I will try to indicate that they aren't being very polite, they will respond, "But our English teacher Big John Stud is from <country> too. And he doesn't care. He even taught us the "Gaijin Song."

Whether you are here for only a year (or less) or for the long haul, you represent the country which you came from. Propagating attitudes that foster mistrust and have xenophobic undertones only hurts us all.

Do you really believe that the word "gaijin" is so harmless? Do you think that stereotypes about "gaijin" are uncommon? I've got a real doozie for you. Even the curriculum in Japanese schools promotes negative attitudes towards us.

The following is taken VERBATIM from a Japanese textbook exercise that a teacher in my school recently gave her students. This was a "matching" exercise where the students had to match up a vocabulary word with a clause containing a participle:

2. a boy.... ....shot by an American

11. a stone.... .... thrown by the blacks


Is THIS what Japanese people think of "gaijin"? Is it something you WANT them to think when they hear the word "gaijin?" Please think about that the next time you want to teach "10 Little Gaijin" to your classes.

[zoubaidah]

Some of my English friends are offended and will not let it pass when they are referred to as "Brits" because that's a term the Irish use in a derogatory way.

Just another pebble for the pond.

Zee

[Nagoyaguy]

hmmm, what can I say that hasnt already been said?

First off, I am not a fresh face in Japan by any means. Lived here for 6 years, married to a Japanese lady for nearly 13. I think I understand the language and culture pretty well.

FOr those who are not offended by being called gaijin, that is fine by me. None of my business. But in the course of your lives you may want to tell those who so label you that there ARE some people who are not comfortable with it. It isnt too much to ask, unless you are happy with your role as gaijin clown and content to live with your nose pressed up against the glass.

Me, I worry about the world my son will grow up in here. I want it to be generally colour blind and race blind. So far, we havent had any troubles. I was shocked at the story of the caucasian kid (with an American father no less) who couldnt speak a word of English, but thats another story. My son does, and isnt afraid to do so. I want the society to be open and accommodating to all types and blends. This means accepting that there is more than a binary (us vs. not us) in society.

As to other, larger problems about race in Japan. Yes, they exist. Yes, they are worse. Yes, I care. But, it is a poor argument to defend one bad behavior by pointing out a worse behavior. Should the lesser be tolerated due to the existence of the greater? I dont think so. Both need to be corrected.

Again, to BJS and his cohort, I ask;

"Under what conditions is it necessary to call me 'gaijin' as opposed to the myriad other forms of more polite and accurate address available?"

[JimDunlop2]

Nagoyaguy: I was surprised about the caucasian kid as well -- but the more I've thought about it, the more sense it makes to me.

His father may have well been American, but that doesn't mean he still IS his father. If there were a separation or divorce early on in his life (maybe even before he was born), especially if it wasn't on amicable terms, I could totally understand the mother being angry, bitter and quite resentful.

If it were me, there's a chance I would want my son to become as Japanese as possible with as little trace of his father's language or culture as possible.

He is a regular student in my ichi-nensei jr. high class. His peers seem to treat him like everyone else. I'm glad I didn't make a fool out of myself in the beginning of the year that he could speak English or that he was a returnee. He's actually somewhere in the lower third of my English class as far as grades and tests go. But, it would be interesting to watch what happens when he gets older and starts to get random Japanese people walk up to him asking him what part of America he's from or just start speaking to him in English to get free eikaiwa.

/just a thought


JD2

[Big John Stud]

Tamago86 wrote:

The only reason you all are *beep* so much and feel so upset is you're all trying to match your own culture and your own use of words and sociolinguistic terminology with that of the Japanese. Japanese don't imply anything offensive when they say "gaijin", opposite of what someone implies when they say "hey darkie" or something like that. Please stop trying to find matches for it, and realize that there are cultures out there besides your own that actually have different points of views than your's (wow!) And if you can't accept that they don't mean you any harm when they say gaijin then that's your own damn problem and a problem you'll spend your entire life fighting in Japan, for nothing. And while you're all whining and moaning about your over-sensitive issues take a look at how other asians are treated in Japan compared to you, many Koreans are lucky to work in factories and most employers won't even look at Chinese people. *This* is true racism, not the kind that stems from English teachers with a lack of understand or willingness to understand the people of the country they're living and working in.

JimDunlop2 please read the top. Tamago86 explains my attitude to the letter. You are way to sensative to trival things!
Even if someone did call you a name so what? Remember the saying of sticks and stones? You can accomplish more by showing a strong character than being weak and letting someone control you by making you mad because she or he called you a silly name that you basically don't understand.

[Nismo]

[chi-chi-]

This is in response to the last couple of postings...this seems to be an area (mixing) where, believe it or not, South Korea seems to be more tolerant. (at least where caucasian/Asian or Korean/Japanese is concerned.)
I know that there are Koreans in Japan, and Japanese in Korea. However, Korean/Japanese tend to make Korea their home, I also taught many mixed race students in SK. Not American/Korean but French/Korean, etc. My students (now given, this was around Seoul) would show me pictures from their "other side." (other country, etc.) They would talk freely about it. Korean/Japanese music groups, such as Cherry Filter, tend to market their music in Korea, not Japan (one exception being Crystal Kay-who markets in Japan not Korea-but she is African-American/Korean.)
I never personally met a student or a coworker in Japan who was mixed, and I don't even know the term for a Japanese who grew up abroad (besides Japanese-American) who comes back to work in Japan. (In Korea, they call returnees "Kyopos", and they call themselves that, so I assume it's not deragatory.)
I did hear about one mixed (American-Japanese student) but he went to Japanese school, could not speak English (even though the parents were married.)
So, what gives? As intolerant as people claim Korea is, they seem to be more open to mixed-race children, and those kids seem to speak better English (as well as French, Spanish, and what have you.)
In Japan, this seems to be an idea that they are just now getting used to, or could I be wrong? Did any of you hear about the case with the Fukuoka schoolteacher (Japanese)?

[JimDunlop2]

chi-chi: I don't know what the proper term in Japanese is for someone who is of mixed racial or ethnic background. I know (from a Japanese slang book) that they're sometimes referred to as: "hafu" (as in: 'half') but I think that's a fairly rude word too.

I think that Korea, despite having their own troubles have been forced to deal with issues like mixed-background children and racial issues much more directly. The last century has been really tumultuous. From the various squirmishes with the Japanese, then the Korean War that brought in not only Americans but many others, soldiers of different origins that took Korean wives and had children; many of whom stayed in Korea or left their families behind; the Chinese lending support to North Korea, and then a military government to rule over an uneasy peace until fairly recently all contribute to the socio-economic environment you see now.

The Japanese really see themselves as an unconquered, strong people. The only country that can claim to have held a military victory over Japan is the United States, and the fruits of that we see in Japan's strange flavour of Westernized modernization..... But not really in an American sense. Everything in Japan seems to take on a distinctly Japanese flavour.

Anyway, no I have not heard anything about a Fukuoka schoolteacher. What's the story?

[Eleckid]

This thread is very intellectual read (by most posters). I agree that it's up to the parents & teachers to teach appropriate behavior to their kids when they see a person who is "different" from them. Not just race, but also size, the disabled, etc.

My uncle is blind & is mentally challenged. His face looks really different from the norm, you can easily tell that he has the syndrome. Anyway, whenever we hang out for family dinner, for ex., there's always ppl discriminating him. I've got a Chinese family at a table who just stared at him, mouth opened, as if they're watching some strange animal in zoo. That was really rude, my dad actually yelled at them in Chinese (we're Chinese too). One time a kid at a table stared at him, pointed at him & started laughing, his mom stopped him, so that was ok. The kid didn't know & the parent taught him that pointing & laughing at someone is wrong.

I've also got a group of highschool kids (mixed race) who was making fun of my uncle while we were walking. This kid was pointing at him, then blew smoke in his face. My poor uncle (I didn't see it at that time). One of the kid then told that boy to stop. Later, my uncle told me what they did to him. Whenever I see ppl discriminating him I'd get really angry & think how uneducated they are.

In Canada, I've also had a lot of racism exp. Kids coming up to me singing the "Me Chinese..." song...kids coming up to me calling me a witch, even teachers treating me badly cuz of my race. Even in highschool, I also got ppl coming up to me, yelling at me by saying "Go back to China, you don't even know what hockey is!", or yelling at me cuz Chinese eat dogs. She just started asking in a rude way, "Hey, do you eat dogs? You guys are mean & disgusting, dogs are cute." I was offended cuz just cuz I'm a Chinese doesn't mean I eat them. My parents or grandparents don't eat them either, not all Chinese eat them. Absolute ignorant.

So I guess discrimination is not only in Japan or Asian countries, but also really bad everywhere in the world. I guess ppl who weren't used to being the victum of discrimination get the biggest shock when they become a target in Japan. Perhaps the word gaijin doesn't offend me so much, I've been called worst somewhere else.

Oh, and it's not rare that ppl who looks like a certain nationality to not know how to speak their lanuage. Many asians I know whose been raised or born in another country can only speak English, even if BOTH their parents are asian. It depends if the parents promote that language at home, take the time to encourage theird kids to learn it in a language school, & if the child themselves accepts their own ethnic background & culture & language. These ppl get teased by other asians cuz they look asian but can't speak it. I think that's why I started learning Chinese really hard when I got into univ...

[Big John Stud]

Nismo I am sorry to say this but you are just a cry baby and too closed minded to learn of a different culture! You are still comparing your culture with Japan saying gaijin is just like saying in English, un-American. Okay maybe you are a fool and don't realize that English is a completely different languages than English!

The rest how can you compare Korea with Japan? I found the Koreans to be far more prejudice than the Japanese. I don't care what someone calls me, but the Koreans would out right discriminate against me because I wasn't Korean. I found the Koreans to be hateful people. Koreans hate everyone! Even themselves that is why they almost killed killed themselves when the North invaded the South.
I don't even know how many times I heard a Korean say, "I hate the Japanese!" But I guess since the people on this thread are so closed minded they don't consider that prejudice!

[TokyoLiz]

Nismo,
your point is taken, at least by me. As educators, the last thing we want to do is reinforce stereotypes or prejudices towards the race or ethnic group or nationality with which we are identified.

The use of the words gaijin, gaikokujin and gaikokujin no kata carry different connotations for me. I've observed over the three years I've been in Japan, that gaijin is generally used in two contexts - the first context is analagous to calling a black person a sambo or an ethnic Chinese a Chinaman; in other words, there's a sting to it, but the speaker isn't aware of the effect on the target (namely me). The other context in which I've heard it used is as a means to identify the target as ignorant of Japanese ways or broadly savage.

Gaikokujin is used in so-called kokusai koryu, and gaikokujin no kata sounds very formal to me. I've been called gaikokujin no kata at the bank or at the city hall to indicate my social status, and haven't felt offended. I find that it's used as a convenient word to indicate someone who is not a Japanese national in the case of official business.

Only amongst my foreign friends do I tolerate the word gaijin. I don't like hearing it coming from my Japanese friends.

Big John Stud wrote

[king kakipi]

Big John Stud

It is people like you that prepetuate the problem; why not switch tag teams and become part of the solution......?