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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:15 am Post subject: |
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The cuplability of someone working for an employer without a BA but legaly papered is about the same as someone who leaves employment decideing themselves what is due compensation....without legal remedy..and asking a lawyer is not the same as a court decession...plus unless you contract calls for it..a bonus is not a percentage payout but a lump sum payout which means either you have it or not...it is not compensation and therefore cannot be turned back to the employer as compensation..it is a justificaion (a good one, at that) and unless the contract calls for it..you can only buy your way out of a contract , not resign.(not diagreeing with the Doc, but it is important that new readers can see that beging legal offers little protection and fewer legal remedies)..but viewing laws and regulations in China as if you were back on the block...will bring you to this type of justification ...and going to any PSB or FAO (Education Department) will offer no real truth or direction. Many of these so called changes in the FT area ,is just that a show for a short time..no one really beleaves that you cant get a Foreign Workers Permit without a BA (I know of a teacher who several days ago got a F turned into a Z in Dalian (the shift of the tide is to legalize this, did yousay.. and again for foreigners to decide what will be legal or to listen to any Chinese Educational Authority, and to buy what they say..by the way..going to the PSB or any other authority to prove a point is bad Ju-Ju....should be avoided at all cost of pride.
What I would like to know is about the shift in Universities to Master Degreed teachers...that will be a great lift for the Chinese educational system to have such well trained teachers for Oral English...but how could they provide the warm bodies on the current stucture of payment ...I know few teachers that could actually live on a scaled (foreign teacher)salary. |
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mlomker
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| cj750 wrote: |
| system to have such well trained teachers for Oral English...but how could they provide the warm bodies on the current stucture of payment ...I know few teachers that could actually live on a scaled (foreign teacher)salary. |
BLCU isn't requesting a Master's degree for English right now--I was just perusing the openings last night. They offer another 500 RMB per month for holders of a Master's degree and teaching non-English courses seems to require it.
I'm not sure how I'd get by on $3k RMB per month in Beijing, though. From what I've read on here that wouldn't be a pleasant experience. |
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Talkdoc
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 696
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| cj750 wrote: |
| What I would like to know is about the shift in Universities to Master Degreed teachers...that will be a great lift for the Chinese educational system to have such well trained teachers for Oral English...but how could they provide the warm bodies on the current stucture of payment ...I know few teachers that could actually live on a scaled (foreign teacher)salary. |
For starters, no one (that I have read) stated that universities are currently requiring a minimum of a master's degree. The point that I made was that they are clearly showing preference for it (as evidenced by the fact that, at my university, the vast majority are in possession of same and that almost all the master's degree level educators in China are working at universities). Twelve of the fifteen foreign teachers who are currently here are essentially retired professional educators who are not motivated by salary. As to whether China would be able to meet the new degree requirement (if it was enforced) with retired educators, remains to be seen.
As I see it, what SAFEA needs to do is rewrite the foreign expert requirements, in regard to foreign English teachers, to more accurately reflect their current need and reality (as the porting over of these requirements from medical, technical and research specialists, from their pre-WTO days, did not adequately do so). I have suggested before a 3-tier system of foreign English teacher: foreign expert (master's degree and five years of experience); foreign teacher (bachelor's degree and two years of experience) and finally; foreign assistant teacher (no degree or experience). Each level, obviously, would qualify for the Z-Visa. This would nicely redress the issue of legality faced by some, and more accurately reflect the current utilization of foreign teachers in China.
cj750, your personal reservations notwithstanding, deputy directors of provincial foreign affairs offices are proper and authoritative sources of information regarding minimum requirements for foreign teachers (certainly far more so than anyone of us here).
Doc |
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bendan
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 739
Location: North China
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| cj750 wrote: |
What I would like to know is about the shift in Universities to Master Degreed teachers...that will be a great lift for the Chinese educational system to have such well trained teachers for Oral English.. |
Perhaps I'm a little cynical, but you were being sarcastic, weren't you? How would simply having a Master's improve the quality of oral English instruction? Surely it would need to be in a relevant discipline. After all, someone with an MA in TESOL probably wouldn't be better at teaching Electrical Engineering than someone with a BA in the subject. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:16 am Post subject: |
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being sarcastic...no...I would be amused to see that happen...
And I would disagree with anyone who used Chinese authorities as a basis for information...as most of it is on and off again.. |
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Talkdoc
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 696
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| cj750 wrote: |
| And I would disagree with anyone who used Chinese authorities as a basis for information...as most of it is on and off again.. |
Right. It is far more dependable to rely on the judgment of an anonymous poster who believes the Chinese do not drive recklessly or that such problems can be resolved with a driver education course. Sounds good to me.
Doc
Last edited by Talkdoc on Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Doc..I have said this before...in China we are truely reesponsible for ourselves and I have also stated that no one knows absolute truth in China...so if you want to bring old treads as proof of your position..ok...but does that in any way detour away from the advice that anyone that comes to China..will have to find there own way through these regulations and some will be successful and some will not..my only advice is try what you can if you wnt to bad enough...
Doc..the driving remark,a bit on the weak side..yea I dont mind Chinese drivers....addapted my self to the situation..not the other way around...try it ...maybe you wont get knocked off you ride so often... |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Doc,
I like your idea of the 3-tier system. I am curious as to what you you think each level would be qualified to teach. |
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Talkdoc
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 696
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| cj750 wrote: |
| I have also stated that no one knows absolute truth in China... |
If you had added the words "about enforcement" after the word "truth," you'd have my total agreement.
| cj750 wrote: |
| yea I dont mind Chinese drivers....addapted my self to the situation. |
Actually, the one thing you did say in that other thread which was true, is that the longer one drives on the roads, the more one appreciates a pattern to the madness: or maybe it's just that I am learning how to anticipate the most common patterns of recklessness.
| Babala wrote: |
| I like your idea of the 3-tier system. I am curious as to what you you think each level would be qualified to teach. |
I can give you my idea, which is biased, and I know a lot of people with degrees in early-childhood education who will curse for me for it but: I'd recommend level 1 for primary school, level 2 for middle, senior school and college EFL teaching and level 3 for advanced English-language courses and degree-related university teaching.
Doc |
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sixshot
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: Of Course You Can |
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Hi,
I have not had time to read this whole post, it seemed to go off the point a little. When I first came to China I had no intetion of teaching and did not even think that I'd be here long. That was over two years ago.
I have worked in Guangzhou for most of this time, but also in a few other places and have been offered jobs in even more. It depends where you wish to work, but if in a big city you have countless opportunities for work and easily pick and choose. There are many private language centres, in-house business training, along with the usual high schools and universities.
I often turn work down and work for three different places doing a variety of lessons, from teaching IELTS, to teaching at Adidas, and previously even dared teach at a kindergarten. All hourly wages, flexible and decent places to work at.
Most of the people I know working in China are doing the same thing, also most of my friend also just turned up.
No problem, as I said, depending on where you wish to teach. |
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