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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| zorro (2) wrote: |
| admittedly not all of it |
Sorry to hear about your concentration issues--have you considered Ritalin? Might be just the thing to get you back in school....
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| they HATE the lectures. |
Who here lectures?  
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| DERBYJOHN - please don't come and work with westgate. you're exactly the kind of person who they don't want working for them.... |
There's a laugh. As many of these posts have amply demonstrated, Westgate will hire anyone with an undergraduate degree and a pulse. Heck, that's how you got your job, right? Oops, I guess that should be, "heck, thats how you got you're joub, rite?" Sorry to write so edjumicatted 
Last edited by taikibansei on Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Andare wrote: |
Takibansei:
Was it the one where she caught you out telling porkies?.... |
Julie caught someone, anyone, out? Must have missed that post. Sadly, the last response of hers that I remember was about how much she enjoyed working at "Westgate University."
Heh, wait, don't you also work on the same campus? |
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Andare
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Look at page 2 of this very thread and refresh your mind. You'll also note that it was YOU who referred to "Westgate University."
You are either a liar or in advanced stages of senile dementia.
Last edited by Andare on Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Andare wrote: |
PIncidentally, thanks for your invatation to check out the union website. However, I usually prefer personal experience and allegations backed up by irrefutable evidence. Just a little quirk of mine.
? |
Well I did about two weeks ago as I get mails from the JALT PALE list, where someone mentioned that some dispatch school like Westgate is getting teachers teaching classes for credit in Hokkaido, but i dont have the mail anymore. may have to ask again just to make sure.
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| Who moderates the moderator? |
Dave Sperling and he's kept me on this long (since last June) without too many problems. Have a problem? Take it up with him. |
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Andare
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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You got an email where someone mentioned that a school like Westgate....???
Could you be any more vague than that? For your information, Westgate only have contracts with universities in Kanto, Fukushima and Aichii. Last time I checked - right after I got off the boat - Hokkaido wasn't in any of those places.
So this entire thread has been based on an email that you only half remember that wasn't even about Westgate?
Classic. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Andare wrote: |
PaIncidentally, thanks for your invatation to check out the union website. However, I usually prefer personal experience and allegations backed up by irrefutable evidence. Just a little quirk of mine.
? |
This personal enough for you?
Below are some of the labour disputes that the National Union of General Workers (Tokyo) has been involved in regarding dispatch across Japan.
Universities and Junior Colleges
This sector continues to see a deterioration of conditions and job losses, due to the discriminatory treatment of part time lecturers, and the steady growth of the dispatch system. The failure of many of these institutions to follow the labour laws of Japan has put them in direct conflict with NUGW unions across the country. This sectors further failure to enroll teachers in unemployment insurance, or offer any kind of job security, leaves teachers in a vulnerable position. The General Union's victory in forcing Ritsumeikan University to enroll teachers into the unemployment insurance fund will go a long way in winning this right at universities across Japan.
Tokyo Board of Education
AETs at the Tokyo Metropolitan High School were told by the board that they should consider themselves not to be employees and more importantly, the board would therefore not negotiate with their union NUGW Tokyo South. A victory at the Tokyo Labour Commission has now secured their right to bargaining and their status as employees. Sad that the largest board in the country has gone down to the level of the worst of the Eikaiwas.
Kita Kyushu Board of Education
The 'Owls' Company dispatches to the Kitakyushu Board of Education. OWLS refused to recognise the teachers they dispatched as employees, instead classifying them as sub-contractors. This meant that teachers were not able to claim basic rights such as paid annual leave, unemployment insurance, and the right to have a union represent them. After pressure from the Fukuoka General Union, Owls agreed to recognize the teachers as employees. This is a big step but the illegal ININ dispatch system between the company and �the board continues.
Osaka Prefectural Board of Education
The Osaka Prefectural Board, even though they have used the legal HAKEN system of dispatch as opposed to ININ has undermined employment security for foreign teachers. The board was unable to answer why they moved from their past system of direct hires to using ECC's subsidiary 'Best Career' (who couldn't even fill the positions they promised to). One important revelation that the board admitted to the General Union is that in their opinion, the ININ dispatch system was a violation of the Education Law as boards of education could not maintain direct control over teachers' work. When asked why the Hirakata and Toyonaka City Boards have not been ordered to stop using the illegal ININ system, the Prefectural board answered that they would only give these city boards direction if they were asked to by the boards themselves.
Nishinomiya Board of Education
Despite this board being warned by the union that the use of ININ workers is illegal under the Education Law, they went ahead in October 2003 and brought in two ININ teachers. The General Union, after winning the end of contract limits for AETs, views this contracting out of work as an attempt to bust the union at the board and as a violation of not only the Dispatch and Education Laws, but also of the Trade Union Law (Article 7, Unfair Labour Practices)
The General Union branch at this board has recently submitted demands that the board stop these illegal practices. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: What? |
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| julieoapw wrote: |
| Re-read this entire thread. Compare my polite attempts to provide factual information as requested. Then Taikeibansei's liberal use of "scab", " "taught" ", holiday etc.... |
Here are the passages to which you appear to have taken personal offense:
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| You also get the ECC and Westgate scabs--again, some of whom are skilled and dedicated teachers. |
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| However, and more importantly, in my experience even the exceptions--i.e., the many serious and professional dispatch instructors--are hurt by this system. |
Help me out here, where exactly do I include a personal insult to you, Julie? Indeed, one would think you'd have the sense to try and demonstrate that you were among the more skilled, serious, and professional dispatch teachers--that would have really shown me--but you are apparently too dim a bulb even for that.
Instead, you, Andare, and the rest whine on and on about how, even though you are absolute idiots in the profession (see below), you deserve love too. Well, why? Is this Incompetent Appreciation Week on the board? I must have missed the memo.... 
julieoapw wrote:
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| Incidentally, I failed several students. |
As I've asked before, on what grounds? Seriously, by all means share--both your specific teaching goals for such a class and how you successfully and fairly evaluated student performance vis-a-vis those goals. E.g., what specific skills did you teach during those 3 months? Why did you decide on those skills? Also, how the heck did you track student improvement in such a short-term conversation class? Through entrance/exit interviews? Drills? Some sort of test? Finally, if the courses you taught were not "real" courses, then why should anyone--particularly the students--have cared that they failed?
Face it, I asked you ultimately a very simple question--how in the world did you evaluate (and fail) students under the conditions you described? You've had no answer at all--indeed, judging from your abusive responses so far, you still fail to understand the question. Pathetic. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Andare wrote: |
| Look at page 2 of this very thread and refresh your mind. You'll also note that it was YOU who referred to "Westgate University." |
Really?
| julieoapw wrote: |
| where did I say that I know that Westgate university do it at other universities? It sounds like ECC do it but I've never worked for them. |
| Andare wrote: |
| because that's what they do at Westgate. |
Hmmm......
| Andare wrote: |
| You are either a liar or in advanced stages of senile dementia. |
What's behind door number 3? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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From the ELT news
Eikaiwa Encroaching on Hallowed Ground
A lack of faculty members with English communicative skills is forcing an increasing number of universities to take on teachers from eikaiwa schools as assistant lecturers. Also, credits for English classes are becoming more widespread. Tokyo Institute of Technology started a course in Technical English for 3rd year students last October. But they discovered that there were not enough teachers with both the technical expertise and English skills to handle the course. So last month they contracted with Berlitz to take on 24 "temp teachers." Also, following a survey of graduates asking them the degree to which they had achieved their academic goals, in which English ranked last of 11 subjects, they have set a target TOEIC score of 650 for all graduates. According to lecturer Osamu Kusakabe, "Teachers who have only taught Shakespeare and literature may resist the changes. But we have to condsider the students' needs and educate engineers who can use English at work."
Tokyo University of Agriculture took on 10 teachers from eikaiwa school ECC in 2000 in order to teach classes in English conversation, composition and TOEIC preparation. An administrator said, "We had to swallow our pride in order to start these English classes. But they are well received by the students." But there are those who disagree, seeing it as "passing the educational buck."
In April, lecturers at Keio University had their hands full with English classes of higher-level students. So the Environmental & Information Sciences and Policy Studies departments took on 2 Berlitz teachers to teach 4 classes of students who had chosen English as their compulsory foreign language class, but had TOEIC scores below 400.
Berlitz currently has contracts with about 60 universities, while ECC has about 50. Of these institutions, about 20% give credits for the English classes, following approval given by the education ministry in April. Both eikaiwa schools see this as a growing market, particularly with the deregulation of state-run universities set to take place next April. (translated from Asahi Shimbun) (July 18, 2003 ) |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Gajah Oling wrote: |
I've been reading this thread with some interest because I've been considering applying at Westgate, but now I'm not sure what all the arguing is about.
Okay, I understand that the teachers who work for Westgate are not professors. I don't think that's disputed. Professors create syllabi, grade students, have offices, etc.
So what's the threat cause by the Westgate "scabs"? I'm confused because it seems like all the professor types here agree that the types of courses they teach are completely different than what Westgate offers through, what seems to be, some kind of extension program offered by universities. In other words, the Westgate positions are the equivalent to a supplemental lab.
On the other hand, if what Westgate is offering is in direct competition to these fully accredited courses and the service they offer is both cheaper than and as effective as those courses, then so be it. They're saving money for both the students and the universities. Perhaps there are overqualified people working at those universities drawing large salaries to teach something that could just as effectively be taught by someone with lesser qualifications. After all, it wasn't long ago that people could show up somewhere and get a job teaching English with the mere qualification of being a native speaker. |
Gajah, you actually bring up some coherent points--are you sure you're really Westgate material?
As I've responded in other posts, there's really no reason not to take the Westgate job. Indeed, it's a great gig--three months of being a "professor," only without those lame administrative, research and teaching responsibilities.
However, it's not cheaper for the students--who have to pay extra on top of their regular fees. Also, don't kid yourself, what's being promoted here is neither "effective" teaching nor in any way somehow "for" the students. Instead, it's merely a great way to cut down on the number of full-time faculty salaries--including those nasty and expensive payouts for bonuses, health insurance, etc.
I mean, yeah, it kind of sucks for the full-time foreign faculty--many of whom are long-term residents supporting families--who lose/are losing/have lost their jobs, but why should you worry about it? Enjoy your three-month holiday. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Andare wrote: |
You got an email where someone mentioned that a school like Westgate....???
Could you be any more vague than that? For your information, Westgate only have contracts with universities in Kanto, Fukushima and Aichii. Last time I checked - right after I got off the boat - Hokkaido wasn't in any of those places.
So this entire thread has been based on an email that you only half remember that wasn't even about Westgate?
Classic. |
Andare, nobody here will publicly post the names of people who have lost their jobs. As I've posted before, I personally know people to whom this is happening, but I'll be damned before I subject these people to the additional humiliation of a public outing.
The sick thing is, you know this--indeed, are counting on our discretion. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. |
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julieoapw
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: once again |
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| Julie was not in fact competent to take the role of professor |
For the umpteenth time Julie has never claimed to be a professor or worthy of such a title.
Duh! |
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julieoapw
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:26 pm Post subject: read your posts |
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| Help me out here, where exactly do I include a personal insult to you, Julie? |
how about here:
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| I'm sure the other Westgate and ECC scabs (now I'm using it to refer to you) |
Try reading your own posts, preferably before posting them.
As for trying to present myself to you as a serious professional, it hardly seemed worth it, when the moment I answered a question about what sort of visa you get, I was called a scab, accused of pretending to be a professor and any qualifications I might have ridiculed. If you don't believe me, go back and read the whole thread - I just came on to give some factual info - you started hurling insults.
I failed people who never showed up for a single class - I figured even a CELTA teacher with 5 years teaching at French universities might be permitted to do this.
And no, I don't know Andare at all - never mind attend the same campus. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: read your posts |
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| julieoapw wrote: |
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| Help me out here, where exactly do I include a personal insult to you, Julie? |
how about here:
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| I'm sure the other Westgate and ECC scabs (now I'm using it to refer to you) |
Try reading your own posts, preferably before posting them. |
Sigh.... 
Of course I'm insulting you there--the whole point of that late post was to make the difference between my initial, very qualified general comments and a personal attack clear. Are you really this, uh, slow?
The fact remains that I wasn't insulting you--or anyone--at the beginning of the three recent threads on this topic, and have indeed gone out of my way to acknowledge the reality that many dispatch instructors are very professional (or at least have aspirations of becoming so).
Unfortunately, I feel the majority of Westgaters posting to this board are representative of the majority of their instructors. Indeed, what I find more than a bit sad is how you Westgaters suddenly "decloak" (warning: Star Trek nerd usage!) here to make your petty, invariably personal attacks, only to whine when you get a cutting response back.
Again, this may be a game to you guys, but people like Jim, Paul, Brooks, Guest and myself actually know long-term and qualified foreign residents who are stuggling to keep--or even find--employment now because of Westgate/ECC/Berlitz. But heh, I hope you enjoy your trolling here, not to mention your 3-month holiday in Japan! |
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Andare
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Another porkie, takibansei. Does Paul really know people who are struggling to keep work because of Westgate? Because I read his last post and I could only find Berlitz and ECC.....
In fact, both you and Paul have failed to back up your insults with a single shred of factual evidence.
To spool back to the original post. Why do Westgate employees get professor visas? Because we teach on university premises. The universities provide the space as part of their extension college program, the students pay 100,000 yen for 100 lessons, which is much cheaper than the competition. That's it.
Amendment for Paul and Wackybansei:
Yes, it's true. The reason we get professor visas is so we can put all of your friends, family and pets out of work. Once we've rendered the educated foreign elite of Japan destitute we use our shiny new professor CVs to move to new countries and put more hard working family men on the dole. It's Westgate's plan for global domination. A bit like You Only Live Twice, 'cept without the base inside a volcano.
Night night children. |
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