Job Discussion Forums

[PAULH]

[shuize]

My case is not so very different. As with many Japanese women, things changed after we had kids. It went from "I want to work so we can both retire young" to "Me, work? You must be kidding! Where did you ever get a crazy idea like that?"

Fortunately, things haven't progressed to her bitch-ing about how much money I bring home ... Yet.

But I've also told my wife (in the context of discussing the trials and tribulations of other international couples we know) that if it ever does reach the point of her bitch-ing about my salary while she herself refuses to work, that I wouldn't rule divorce out and then she can try and make due on her own. Sometimes I doubt if I could really go through with it, with the kids and all. But other times I think "If that were me, I'd be damned if I'd stick it out as the only one working and then get bitch-ed at about not making enough money on top of it."

[pnksweater]

If only my husband could read this post. He spent the last year and a half spending all his pay (not that much) on records while I payed all the bills. No b*tching involved. Maybe I should look into a Japanese husband.

[abufletcher]

[mrjohndub]

If you want to turn this into a PAULH bashfest, start another thread, please. The guy`s been here a long time. Maybe he`s seemed to come across as condescending every once in a while, but I doubt he means it that way. We all know the internet is a very impersonal way to communicate as it lacks outlets for body language, tone and so forth.

Plus, I`m willing to bet that PAULH has given just about everybody on this board some good advice or perspective at some point, and he does so in a thorough and informative way. I know he`s done it for me... Don`t read too much into the perceived attitude. The guy doesn`t seem to me to get kicks out of snide remarks. On the contrary, because he enjoys Japan and is immersed in his profession, he is quick to offer opinions and help with needed information.

[PAULH]

[abufletcher]

Paul, looks like there truly are no new jokes!

[quote="PAULH"]Well how many people come here for a year and find they are here 5 or 10 years later? I know some people here when i came here in the late 80's and early 90's are still here. lots of people immigrate for one reason or another. Many are just here for a few years.[quote/]

Japan's a fine place to be a long-term "soujourner" (a more positive term for "expat") but if it came down to a "once and for all" choice of nationailty for me and my children and my children's children, I wouldn't chose to "be Japanese." For the most part, adult life as a Japanese in Japan seems to me to be pretty grim. Even by high school it's no picnic. Japan may be a pleasant place to be a child or even an old person but in between it's tough.

Prior to my life (as a soujourner") in Japan, I had an equally long life as a soujourner in the Middle East. There are lots and lots of long-term ME expats. I have several friends/past-colleagues who've been there well over 25 years. In my heart of hearts I know I'll always "love" the Gulf more than I do Japan. But I also know it's not the place or culture itself I loved but rather the life I got to lead there. I'm in Japan primarily because it suits the personal and professional me that I've become later in life (i.e. I earn more cash to pay for kids education and get to pretend I'm an academic). If I got paid my current salary for doing my current job in the Gulf, I'd be gone in a flash.

The difference is that you almost never hear anyone waxing lyrical about Omani or Saudi culture the way people do about Japan. I don't know why. But I suspect a lot of it has to do with the fact that telling people "back home" you work in Japan seems to garner more oohs and aahs than telling people you work in the Middle East. And I suspect those attitudes can be traced back to Japanesque and Chinesque crazes of 19th century Europe and more recently to post-WWII "occupation" stories.

I suspect the presence of many long-term expats in Japan is also the result of marriage. How many long-timers do you know who are NOT married to a Japanese spouse? Sure there are a few but no more than you'd find in any other country. I guess what I'm saying here is that Japan is in no way a unique expat experience. That's just one more side of the "myth of Japanese uniqueness."

As for the list of items at the end of your post, the same list is by and large true for me -- as much in my Gulf life as my Japan life. I don't have long-term friends period. That's one of the things you typically have to give up to live the expat life. Sure I keep in touch with a few people from the past -- but we all know the way the game is played.

BTW, a few years ago I had the opportunity to be a soujourner in my home country (USA) and that was an interesting experience. I'm now faced with the difficult question of whether I'd prefer to continue soujourning someplace my whole life or "immigrating" back to the US -- and accept all the realities of true immigration.

[PAULH]

[abufletcher]

I used to complain that the Middle East was a bit colonial with westerner expats sitting on their pertro-dollar versions of a veranda.

If so, then I guess expat life in Japan (along with China and Korea) are just bad "occupation novels."

[SEndrigo]

[abufletcher]

My advice? Make sure any J (or C or K) girl who you're serious about knows that marrying you most likely means living in a string of countries or in one country (not necessarily hers) with a string of jobs. And that the kids will most likely end up at an English-speaking high school (probably not in Japan) and living longterm outside of Japan.

I think one of the things that helped my wife and I get through all these years together was the fact that we were BOTH expats in a number of foreign (for us) cultures.

That having been said it's a truism that "You can take the girl out of Japan/Korea/China/Mexico/etc. but you can't take the Japan/Korea/China/Mexico out of the girl." My wife, for example, will always be Mexican no matter where we live and will always interpret events in the light of her own cultural experience. And you will NEVER -- I repeat NEVER -- get past that stage of cross-cultural miscommunication!

[ruggedtoast]

Theres no point worrying about why your students say the things they do. For what its worth esl learners in Japan are far from representative of the general population, a lot of them lay it on with a trowel as well depending on what reaction they want from you!

[mrjohndub]

Are there upsides to marrying a Japanese woman?

[PAULH]

[Stosskraft]

free reign at the hostess bars?