Job Discussion Forums

johnchina · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 816

... could a certain person quit with the lame "Peace to ..." and "Cheers and beers to .." bits ... unless he really is under the age of 15 or a practicing hippie atually living in a hippie compound.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Johnchina, I appreciate your support in your earlier post. You seem to have noticed that there are a handful of individuals who use this forum as a means of stalking people who have disagreed with them in the past. They do not discuss topics or posts as they quite simply do not have the ability to do so.

It is sad that this forum gets abused in this way but perhaps the saddest thing of all is these individuals themselves. I cannot imagine living in a country that I disliked so much, among people who I did not trust, with my only lifeline being daily participation in a forum that I had nothing to offer. When you realize that their participation at eslcafe is quite likely the highlight of their day and something that they do the moment they get back to their room each day, then you get an appreciation of the mindset that is behind these shallow posts.

cj750 you raise some interesting points but I think that we should make a distinction between headhunters and recruiters. In most cases teachers wanting to teach English in China would be dealing with recruiters. As per your post however, it would be true that teachers in real international schools may in fact use headhunters.

I agree with your suggestion that to be really useful the recruiter should have a base in China. They should be out visiting the schools that they recruit for, and they should have an up to date working knowledge of these places. A recruiter based overseas and who only makes the occasional visit to China is probably less likely to be able to provide a valuable service. In fact this raises a pertinent question that should be asked of all recruiters and that is - Have you ever visited the school yourself? If the answer is yes then it could be qualified by asking some questions about the layout of the school and the infrastructure of the surrounding area etc.

To me the real value of a good recruiter is having someone to line things up for you. In most cases the people who choose to go through recruiters do so solely to have someone to organize everything for them. The prospect of moving to China to take up a job teaching can be a daunting one, and having someone to support you through the process can be worth the investment. The keys to ensuring that you have a good experience with a recruiter are - research and common sense.

vikdk · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 1676

when vik writes this -

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

christee · Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 17

So many arguments for what is a good recruiter and what is a bad, how to tell the difference, what questions to ask, etc. I'm not really sure what all that matters. I would propose that teachers just let the proof be in the pudding. If they don't have to pay anything to sign up with a recruiter (of course we don't turn applicants down, that is the schools' job) or don't have to pay until they have a job, then what's the harm in trying them and seeing what you get?

Of course recruiters don't visit schools unless we happen to be in the area - that would be an exorbitant expense for the benefit received. But what we can do is put a candidate teacher in touch with a teacher currently at the school to find out the "real story" of teaching there, which is probably much better than hearing about it from a third party.

CJ750, you write,

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

"it takes just an instant to give an instance"

yea you are right ..that is what I meant..thanks ...

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

Vikdk I did not reply to your earlier comments out of respect for other posters on this forum, one of whom pointed out on that thread that our discussion was a two person one and off topic. I am very much a critic of people who post off topic thereby derailing otherwise good threads, and when it is pointed out to me that I am guilty of that myself I am not too big to accept that and cease.

Essentially it all comes down to this however.

1. If you don't like the site that I am involved with then don't use it. In line with this it would make sense that you stop making inaccurate statements about something that you have no knowledge of, and if you are choosing not to use that site then you can be excused for not having any knowledge about it.

2. I choose not to discuss what I consider to be personal issues about myself on this discussion forum and whether you agree with that decision or not is of no consequence to me. I suggest that you accept it though as attempt to argue to the contrary is going to be an exercise in futility.

3. If you want to continue these sorts of off topic stabs at me then I suggest you start a new thread titled 'Off Topic Stabs at Clark'. Otherwise stay on topic and stop derailing threads.

Malsol · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1976 Location: Lanzhou

Clark

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

vikdk · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 1676

Clark - I would have thought it very on-topic to chase up on a poster who seems to want to write so much on recruiters - especially since much of it is written in such a positive light - and more especially when that poster - is so closely connected to a site that is so closely connected to the job of recruiting FT's. After all its in our own interests to find out what agenda pushes you into taking such an active part in these type of discussions!!! So Clark why do you continue to tell us nothing on that very on topic subject of what is your background, past and present, in the China ESL industry?

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056