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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| canuck wrote: |
| taikibansei, are your plans to import said left nut or will you try and sell it on ebay? |
 Nuts on ebay are a dime a dozen now. Hence, I think I'll freeze it and sell later...hopefully, when the market is not so glutted.
More seriously, I must say I usually like, and agree with, Crab's posts. This one bugged me--mostly because I've just had to wade through a bunch of applications recently. Still, my apologies if I offended. And yes, I understand quite well that Chula is a good school. Unfortunately, and sadly, this is not enough with many search committees. That was my point. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Taikibansei,
How did distance masters degrees fare on your search committees? How would you compare their perceptions between the US and Japan? |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Gordon wrote: |
Taikibansei,
How did distance masters degrees fare on your search committees? How would you compare their perceptions between the US and Japan? |
Distance degrees are no problem in Japan. In the US, however, you'll run into occasional problems. E.g., at my last US university, I had to fight to get my favorite candidate hired--the rest of the committee initially wanted to reject him because of his distance PhD. Their concerns were somewhat legit in that most good MA/PhD programs in the US now include extensive teaching/teacher training components. However, I pointed out that his distance degree enabled him to study while teaching full-time--i.e., he was already doing what the best programs only train him to be able to do.
That I had to explain this for him points to the flaw in his application--remember to highlight your teaching experience and/or training when you apply for jobs with just a distance degree. However, the fact that I won and he got the job shows that it can be done. Just be ready for the questions/arguments against you...and have answers for them. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks a lot. It is what I suspected. I think part of the misperception of distance degrees is attributed to the fact there are few distance masters programs in our filed in either the US or Canada. In fact, Canada does not have a single university that offers a complete distance masters in TEFL/Applied Linguistics. So it goes to show that their will be more prejudices. For people who have a family and need to work to support them, a distance degree is the ONLY option. |
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hentaigaijin
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| Crab wrote: |
| To the OP, you would not be doing yourself any disservice whatsoever by getting a degree from Chula, if your goal is to work in Japan. |
 This is, quite frankly, horrible advice. And not because of any problems with the quality and/or overall ranking of Chula--I'm sure it's a fine school, and a graduate degree taken, say, in the Thai language would be respected. However, the reaction overseas to an English (or Japanese) native speaker majoring in TESOL/Japanese at a Thai University would be contempt.
The perceptions working against you are these: if the graduate classes are taught in just English/Japanese, then they are necessarily dumbed down to accommodate all the non native speakers (Thai citizens, all) in the classroom; if the classes are taught in Thai, then how much did the non Thai really understand, and (in the case of Japanese) how rigorous could the program really be? Finally, you'd deal with this question: why would a non Thai lacking native-level skills in the language want to take TESOL and/or Japanese in Thailand, when they'd have access at home to equivalent (at least) quality courses taught in their native languages?
I'm sure Hentaigaijin and others will now argue back that these perceptions are unfair, the question inappropriate. Fine. Keep in mind, though, how competitive full-time university positions are in Japan and most western countries. I've been on search committees in seven universities so far: three in Japan, and four in the States. E.g., we just completed a search recently in Japan which saw over 100 applicants with at least the Masters in TESOL--the two English native speakers who took their degrees in Thailand were weeded out immediately. Why should we bother with them (and address our concerns/prejudices) when we have 98+ other qualified applicants for one position?
My two yen. |
the ma thai studies and the med tefl are both international programs, taught in english. i'm still making enquiries regarding the japanese course but i have my doubts about this course and it may not be feasible.
the fact that some would view a thai university like chula with prejudice is partly why i mention the #161 thing. they seem to think waseda is the dog's bollocks but it's not really any better than chula according to thes. surely the sheffield thing would be enough to get me an interview, where i could then talk about my tefl training?
Last edited by hentaigaijin on Sun May 27, 2007 9:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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hentaigaijin
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| taikibansei wrote: |
Chula and Oxford in the same sentence?  Yeah, that analogy works...thanks for that! |
Just to clarify what I meant here, Chula is currently ranked 161 in the world--not bad considering the total number of universities out there. Oxford, however, placed first in the Times guide. Furthermore, Oxford's Japanese program is rated one of the best in the world--and has been for a number of years now. For all Chula's comparative strengths, TESOL and Japanese are not counted among them. Hence, comparing the two is sheer madness.
Still, Crab, keep telling people a TESOL/Applied Linguistics degree taken at Chula is the same as one taken at Cambridge or at Brown (we got submissions from all three last round, by the way). Your continued efforts in this will make it easier for search committees everywhere, so thank you in advance.
However, for anyone seriously thinking about teaching full-time at a university in Japan, England, Canada, Australia, and the US, think twice about getting your TESOL or Japanese degree at a place like Chula. You'll be competing against tens to hundreds of people with degrees from better ranked universities in the field. Why handicap yourself, especially when many decent programs now offer online courses? |
with regard to crab's comments about how many transnational exchanges and the like occur between chula and its foreign partners, i have to say that you have to deal with at least one thai university if you want to work with/ in thailand and therefore the chula choice is almost a no-brainer (no pun intended).
that said, i do find some of taikibansei's comments to be somewhat ignorant and close-minded. i wouldn't be surprised if there were others in japan who thought the same either as one of the greatest paradoxes for me is that in my opinion the japanese are both extremely enlightened and extremely ignorant, all rolled into one. so i'm using this forum as a sounding board.
i wasn't necessarily only thinking of full-time jobs either as i have spoken to one bloke on here who reckons he has 3 part-time gigs in tokyo and is making 6000 GBP per month. |
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hentaigaijin
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| More seriously, I must say I usually like, and agree with, Crab's posts. This one bugged me--mostly because I've just had to wade through a bunch of applications recently. Still, my apologies if I offended. And yes, I understand quite well that Chula is a good school. Unfortunately, and sadly, this is not enough with many search committees. That was my point. |
this is as i feared. i was hoping for a different perspective and i got one so i don't want to shoot the messenger as it were.
from my point of view, if you look at my cv it has the names of the three leading institutions in the country and therefore since i have been engaged in tefl teaching in thailand, why not also get the qual here (through the faculty of education whom i have worked for)? in my view, the fact that it is 3rd world also makes things more of a challenge so i don't feel this should be considered "mickey mouse" (even if it sometimes is).
i am prepared for negative perceptions of a chula degree based on what i have heard/ presume to be the case (your comments only serve to confirm my fears). however, i would say this has more to do with an unfortunate japanese rigidity than with reality necessarily. as we all know, tefl is "not rocket science" so who cares if the masters is from chula or oxford at the end of the day. it is job specific training and i think one should consider the candidate's attributes holistically and not in isolation.
i am hoping the phd thru sheffield thing will counteract notions of thai incompetence and get me a job. if you think this is pie in the sky i may well do the ma thai studies (which nobody can very well sneeze at - i'd rather study thai studies at chula than at a japanese university, for example).
i can always wip out the print out from thes, grab the dean by the throat and say: "look punk! waseda ain't sh*t baby. do you need a freakin' pair of glasses or what? 161 mofo!!! read em and weap all you tohoku b*tches."
..err ... i think i'll get my coat..  |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| hentaigaijin wrote: |
| the fact that some would view a thai university like chula with prejudice is partly why i mention the #161 thing. they seem to think waseda is the dog's bollocks but it's not really any better than chula according to thes. |
I guess I now need to state, again, that I don't think Chula is a bad university. On the contrary, it is quite strong in a number of fields, and I personally would quite willingly hire a Thai national who graduated from one of their programs.
This said, I would, again, have serious questions about a native speaker of English/Japanese who received a graduate degree in English, TESOL or Japanese from there. Note that I would have similar questions about English native speakers who got their English MA/PhD at a Japanese university, not to mention Japanese native speakers who received an MA/Phd in Japanese from most universities in the States. I've mentioned some reasons earlier--here's another one: too often, even ostensibly competitive programs have a different set of admissions and graduation standards for native speakers. E.g., as long as the latter pay tuition (or can get it subsidized), it's much easier for them to get in and out of the program. After all, their very presence in the program is a great resource for the struggling non native students (and teachers)!
And yeah, there are a few exceptions to this. Graduating from Oxbridge or the Ivy League can never hurt. OSU and Wisconsin have respected Japanese programs as well. Outside of these few programs, however, you (program graduate and now job applicant) would need to make an exceptionally strong case to survive the first round. In my opinion, it's best to know this going in...before you spend any money on tuition.
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| surely the sheffield thing would be enough to get me an interview, where i could then talk about mt tefl training? |
Sheffield is certainly a respected degree. Keep in mind, though, that it is a pretty popular degree here--i.e., a number of applicants in each search will have a Masters from Sheffield. Hence, you'll often need to do more (e.g., publications and/or p/t work experience in a Japanese university) to ensure an interview. |
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hentaigaijin
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
I guess I now need to state, again, that I don't think Chula is a bad university. On the contrary, it is quite strong in a number of fields, and I personally would quite willingly hire a Thai national who graduated from one of their programs.
This said, I would, again, have serious questions about a native speaker of English/Japanese who received a graduate degree in English, TESOL or Japanese from there. |
why? (1) i'm living in bangkok (2) it says a lot about a candidate if they have had a cross-cultural educational experience - i call this added value. i could easily go back to oxford brookes (oxford poly) and do an ma tesol there but that would be plain boring (3) while the course fees are actually HIGHER at chula, the living costs are next to nothing - again, a big PLUS (you can live on as little as $600 a month here) (4) the semester starts next month and time-wise it is all very convenient for me.
apparently, the masters has been offered since 1962 so it can't be that bad, surely?
| taikibansei wrote: |
| Note that I would have similar questions about English native speakers who got their English MA/PhD at a Japanese university, not to mention Japanese native speakers who received an MA/Phd in Japanese from most universities in the States. I've mentioned some reasons earlier--here's another one: too often, even ostensibly competitive programs have a different set of admissions and graduation standards for native speakers. E.g., as long as the latter pay tuition (or can get it subsidized), it's much easier for them to get in and out of the program. After all, their very presence in the program is a great resource for the struggling non native students (and teachers)! |
i don't see that this is really relevant to my case.
| taikibansei wrote: |
| And yeah, there are a few exceptions to this. Graduating from Oxbridge or the Ivy League can never hurt. OSU and Wisconsin have respected Japanese programs as well. Outside of these few programs, however, you (program graduate and now job applicant) would need to make an exceptionally strong case to survive the first round. In my opinion, it's best to know this going in...before you spend any money on tuition. |
yes, it's important to think about things seriously before lurching head long into something, especially if you have certain reservations. i'm grateful to you all for assisting me in my explorations. 
i thought hawaii was supposed to be one of the best schools for japanese along with yale and harvard (and soas, sheffield, oxford and cambridge)?
| taikibansei wrote: |
| Sheffield is certainly a respected degree. Keep in mind, though, that it is a pretty popular degree here--i.e., a number of applicants in each search will have a Masters from Sheffield. Hence, you'll often need to do more (e.g., publications and/or p/t work experience in a Japanese university) to ensure an interview. |
it's a phd. i doubt there will be hoards of candidates doing a phd through the uk's newly designated "national institute of japanese studies". even better if i can take advantage of the strong research links with toudai and try to use this as an extra selling point. to be honest, i think sheffield will probably be able to hook me up with my first teaching post out there. i need that one year of japan experience before i start thinking too far ahead anyway. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Why would I have questions about you?! Because the third of the three requirements for admission to the darn program is just a 500 TOEFL! I.e., the curriculum is designed for non native speakers of English--a good thing, really, given that the program is in Thailand!!!
http://www.inter.chula.ac.th/inter/internationalstudents/TEFL.pdf
To give you an idea, most US graduate TESOL programs now require a 600 TOEFL. Accordingly, the classes in TEFL at Chula--while I'm sure very challenging for non native speakers--will be a comparative breeze for (most) native speakers of English.
Furthermore, note that the 2.75 GPA requirement (a bit of a joke in itself...) is waived for people with three years of "teaching" experience. In other words, they want people to pay (by Thai standards) that very expensive tuition, and hence, are not too discriminating about who they allow into this particular program. The fact that the classes are taught in English just makes them attractive to unsuspecting foreigners as well. E.g., after three years teaching in Thailand, you too can get in with even a 2.0 (or lower) GPA--and then compete in English for grades with non native speaker students. Sounds like fun...where do I sign up?! |
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hentaigaijin
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
Why would I have questions about you?! Because the third of the three requirements for admission to the darn program is just a 500 TOEFL! I.e., the curriculum is designed for non native speakers of English--a good thing, really, given that the program is in Thailand!!!
To give you an idea, most US graduate TESOL programs now require a 600 TOEFL. Accordingly, the classes in TEFL at Chula--while I'm sure very challenging for non native speakers--will be a comparative breeze for (most) native speakers of English.
Furthermore, note that the 2.75 GPA requirement (a bit of a joke in itself...) is waived for people with three years of "teaching" experience. In other words, they want people to pay (by Thai standards) that very expensive tuition, and hence, are not too discriminating about who they allow into this particular program. The fact that the classes are taught in English just makes them attractive to unsuspecting foreigners as well. E.g., after three years teaching in Thailand, you too can get in with even a 2.0 (or lower) GPA--and then compete in English for grades with non native speaker students. Sounds like fun...where do I sign up?! |
(1) 500 TOEFL or 600 TOEFL... big deal.
(2) it's an international program - it's for everyone. do you know for a fact that there are more nns than ns on the program? do you know the ratio of nns to ns who take the course? i don't think you do. i think you presume to.
(3) it would be a comparative breeze for anyone, anywhere - it's tefl my friend. aka "bullsh*t packaged as academic fodder".
(4) who's competing with who for grades? you've got a bit of a w*nky world view. i couldn't give 2 sh*ts what the rest of the muppets in my class will be doing frankly. and just for the record, the entrance requirements for most courses in thai schools are a joke - chula is still the best and that's enough for me.
of course, if it really is a load of poo, i'll just opt for thai studies instead. but an med in tefl from chula could be useful for me in the future with regard to collaboration with thais, even if it may get me nowhere in japan (the phd will take care of that one).
i'll happily teach high school at the end of the day anyway.
Last edited by hentaigaijin on Sun May 27, 2007 12:46 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the ratio of ns to nns is pretty important when taking a program. The nns should also have an excellent grasp of the English language otherwise they bring down the quality of the classes. |
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hentaigaijin
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Gordon wrote: |
| I think the ratio of ns to nns is pretty important when taking a program. The nns should also have an excellent grasp of the English language otherwise they bring down the quality of the classes. |
i'll look into it. |
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hentaigaijin
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| (5) there are some really hot babes at chula. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| OP, taikibansei is just bringing up relevant points to consider when you go to get a job based on his experience of being on search committees. Unfortunately, his example of a candidate he had to fight for (the one with a distance PhD) highlights the problem you may have with any degree that is viewed with suspicion. Remember that a well qualified candidate got the job because someone fought for him. Many candidates may not have that plus in their favor or may have someone who likes them, but that person on the committee may not have so much influence or persuasive power. |
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