Job Discussion Forums

[Symphany]

Most of the discussion on this thread seems to be related to racial relation and class and cultural perception of mainly caucasian or fair-skinned foreigners.

I would like to know if anyone of African descent has any personal experience living and working in Mexico?

Do Mexicans see African Americans or Afro-Caribbeans from New York or Toronto as not real foreigners who can do the job, or have a lot of money?

[Mike S.]

I think that some of the most beautiful women that I�ve ever seen anywhere have been Mexican morenas. But you never see them as models in the store catalogs, like you see African-American women in the ones in the US.

[MO39]

[Guy Courchesne]

Not that I disagree, but is it really racist? I don't see much difference in the US or Canada. Our countries are far more varied in racial makeup, but you'll still only see what's popularly considered the 'most beautiful' in advertising or pop culture, along whatever marketing lines you can think of. Mexico does the same.

When has Jane Q. Frumpy from Peoria, Illinois ever made the cover of Covergirl magazine?

[MO39]

[Gary Denness]

[Guy Courchesne]

From our point of view, yes I agree. But, I don't see the Mexicans as having the same awareness.

We as foreigners are going to define 'race' in very different ways from most Mexicans I think. What defines a racial group in a country that calls its own citizens mestizos? Is it class? Language? Where they live?

You and I would look and say that Mexican high society excludes all indigenous people. What makes a person indigenous exactly, if that's what we're talking about?

[Gary Denness]

[Mike S.]

Would Barack Obama be considered a mulatto in Mexico? I think that he is one of the true ''African-Americans'' because his father was an actual native African, an his mother is an American, who happens to be white. And if any one decides that I am making racist comments here, please be aware that I will be pleased if he is elected the next president of the US. It�s interesting that if someone has any amount of ''black blood'' in the US they are automatically placed in the ''black'' or ''African-American'' category.

On a ''lighter'' note - How about the ''Gringa'' sandwich sold at taco trucks?
It reminds me of the classic Lenny Bruce bit in which he goes into an Italian delicatessan and orders a ''big Dego''.

[Phil_K]

[MO39]

[MELEE]

An interesting thing in Mexico is that there are scholarships for indigenous students (at all levels, primary to post-grad) but in order to qualify for such scholarships, you MUST speak an Indigenous language. But in Oaxaca some villages have completely lost their language. Village A and Village B may be only 5 miles apart, they may be extrondianirly alike in all ways, except, Village A has managed to keep their language, while the people from Village B speak only Spanish. Children from Village B are not eligible for these scholarships.


What MO described is generally true throughout Latin America. I remember in Ecuador particularly, the difference between indo, cholo, and mestizo was the way they dressed and lived, not the blood in their veins.

[MELEE]

[MO39]

Melee,

Thanks for gathering up these old threads for us to read. I especially enjoyed re-reading Moon Raven's contributions - I wonder what she's up to these days...

MO

[choctawmicmac]

...as evidenced by the fact that, in their own culture, not just Mexican-American but really, all over Latin America, the lighter their skin the more they bend over backwards to prove in every aspect of life that they are NOT those awful hateful gringos. And there is disdain among the Mexican community of those who "pass for white" and live like white, so to speak. If their skin is so light they 'pass for white' they try as hard as they can to act and live as culturally "Mexican" as possible, living down all the stereotypes, especially the negative ones. You never see the dark-skinned ones up in the States or here in Canada and speaking only Spanish and refusing to learn English like the stereotypical ones in all the places you see on the news. All of the bad stereotypes you see on the news - those are the light-skinned ones trying hard not to be mistaken for white. Gringo is the worst thing you can call someone who's actually Mexican. Or any Latin-American country, for that matter, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Honduran, Costa Rican, etc. They all hate gringos.

This is not to say that they treat their own dark-skinned people better than the light ones. The lighter the skin down there, the better off you are, too; just like anyplace else in the world. It's just that the light-skinned ones have to "act" more "Mexican" (and all that that means) because they don't "look" it.

The racial heirarchy of skin pigmentation is true in every country that was colonised by a European country and itself originally had dark-skinned native people living in it. This rubbish is true everywhere, and still happens everywhere. Look at the Philippines - Philippinos are dark skinned, but the ones you see over here on North America are the light-skinned ones who practically look like Spaniards. Those were the ones who could scrape together the travel fare and the thousands of dollars for immigration paperwork to either Canada or the USA, and get here. What Philippinos really look like - that you will only see IN the Philippines. Not the Philippino-Americans or the Philippino-Canadians.