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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, it was 1995 and I can't remember |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| oxi wrote: |
| Sorry, it was 1995 and I can't remember |
That's a good one. No, really. I absolutely love it! Not only it's more than 10 years old but you also just google up the first website there is as a proof? That's a credible witness of you. Or maybe that museum never existed, eh? |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Ok, please excuse the misinterpretation.
Wherever I work I often hear for example:-
Lithuania - Russians should get out
Romania - Gypsies should get out
Saudi - everyone else should get out
Hong Kong - Chinese should get out.
among others. The reasoning is usually to do with past, not present, events |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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You're right, I can't prove it right now. So do you think I'm lying?
You're right on the google. It didn't take a lot of effort to find a site which talks of Lithuanians killing Jews. So do you think it's lying?
There are quite a few more if Google helps prove it to you |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| oxi wrote: |
Ok, please excuse the misinterpretation.
Wherever I work I often hear for example:-
Lithuania - Russians should get out
Romania - Gypsies should get out
Saudi - everyone else should get out
Hong Kong - Chinese should get out.
among others. The reasoning is usually to do with past, not present, events |
And that will stay this way for a long time. My grandparents' generation was born after WWI and suffered through WWII. My grandparents were not deported to Siberia only because they were late to return home by accident. My parents lived through the Soviet regime knowing what it did to their parents and could no nothing. I live in a -seemingly!- free country now and every day I hear people complaining about how glorious USSR was and how bad it is to live in Lithuania where young people don't speak Russian anymore. A language is a part of a culture and if one wants to be a citizen, he or she must learn the official language, no discussions!
EU dual citizenship may require to know both languages to a degree and that in the first place benefits the people who want to have the citizenship. If you speak only one language, say Lithuanian, and move to Spain, hoe efficient in getting a job, going to school, or buying bread can you be? With this, you will only live in a small area of immigrants like you and will be exploited by them and sooner or later deported for something. |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| oxi wrote: |
You're right, I can't prove it right now. So do you think I'm lying?
You're right on the google. It didn't take a lot of effort to find a site which talks of Lithuanians killing Jews. So do you think it's lying?
There are quite a few more if Google helps prove it to you |
I'd rather trust official documents, which you don't usually google up, I'm afraid. |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: |
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That's better. Now, which and where says it was Lithuanians who did it? |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Kootvela,
Sorry - have to go now. I can maybe discuss tomorrow.
As I said, I didn't come on to troll, but I guess that's the effect I had. Maybe I'll pm you? - I appreciate the info you gave a couple of posts up. Would like to chat without it being aggressive. Bye |
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Kootvela
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| oxi wrote: |
Kootvela,
Sorry - have to go now. I can maybe discuss tomorrow.
As I said, I didn't come on to troll, but I guess that's the effect I had. Maybe I'll pm you? - I appreciate the info you gave a couple of posts up. Would like to chat without it being aggressive. Bye |
Sure, pm me. |
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jonniboy
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Panama City, Panama
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
| To take a comment to town (or the cleaners) means to rip it apart, show all of its weaknesses, in this case jonniboy's idea that Baltic nationalism is 'outdated'. |
Not actually what I said. My point was that its possible to be nationalistic or patriotic without that extending to discrimination against rival ethnic groups, unfortunately all too often in the Baltics being nationalist means griping about "the other lot" and the Russians do it as much.
Anyway though, I'm going to have severely limited net connection in the next two months so unfortunately I'll have to withdraw from this discussion, interesting though it has been. |
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jonniboy
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Panama City, Panama
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
| To take a comment to town (or the cleaners) means to rip it apart, show all of its weaknesses, in this case jonniboy's idea that Baltic nationalism is 'outdated'. |
Not actually what I said. My point was that its possible to be nationalistic or patriotic without that extending to discrimination against rival ethnic groups, unfortunately all too often in the Baltics being nationalist means griping about "the other lot" and the Russians do it as much.
None of you seem to have given much thought as to where this will lead in the longer term. As more and more ethnic Russians gain citizenship after having gone through the Baltic school system their percentage of the electorate in those countries can only increase. That'll mean in the future a lot of embittered people voting with consequent instability in the political system. A more conciliatory attitude could prevent this. For example in Riga there are areas which are 70% Russian and they used to have bilingual street signs but they've gone to the trouble of painting over them to only leave the Latvian which is misguided at best.
Anyway though, I'm going to have severely limited net connection in the next two months so unfortunately I'll have to withdraw from this discussion, interesting though it has been. |
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maruss
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 1145
Location: Cyprus
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: Patriotism v racialism |
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Since 1974 when Turkey invaded Cyprus,they have sent approx 200.000 settlers from the mainland to change the demographic structure and colonise the north and these people now outnumber the Turkish Cypriots.Some of them have married Turkish Cypriots and many have children who were born here in Cyprus.So the whole issue is a very sensitive part of the overall Cyprus political problem which we tentatively hope will finally be solved in the latest round of negotiations due to get underway ina few months time.So what happens to these people who are technically illegal immigrants here as a result of a war crime commited by Turkey?The Greek-Cypriot leadership has agreed to compromise on humanitarian grounds by allowing about 50.000 to stay here as part of a deal with the rest being given financial incentives to return home.Greek-Cypriots nowadays can visit Turkey and do so ,somethng unthinkable not so long ago and nobody goes there shouting that Turkey should get out of Cyprus etc!Of course their occupying army has to be withdrawn as part of a solution but blind hatred and nationalist extremism against everyone who is Turkish will certainly not help achieve that aim....
Learning from history is a lesson of wisdom,trying to repeat it is foolhardy and can only lead to more misery and suffering.We only have one planet to live on and have to share it...... |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| jonniboy wrote: |
| rusmeister wrote: |
| To take a comment to town (or the cleaners) means to rip it apart, show all of its weaknesses, in this case jonniboy's idea that Baltic nationalism is 'outdated'. |
Not actually what I said. My point was that its possible to be nationalistic or patriotic without that extending to discrimination against rival ethnic groups, unfortunately all too often in the Baltics being nationalist means griping about "the other lot" and the Russians do it as much.
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Fair enough. I was more responding to that one post and didn't pick all that up from it.
It's not much of an incentive to step in and support someone if they are going to turn around and bite you! (my perception) |
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