Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

HELP! Grammar question
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bamby



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MO39 wrote:
Bamby wrote:


I had to butt in. Aren't I (Are not I) is incorrect. Am I not is correct. It is never 'I are'; it is always 'I am'. To ask a question instead of "I am" you would say Am I... I hope that is not difficult.


According to my Merriam Webster's dictionary, "aren't I?" is the perfectly correct question form of "I am not". Just one of those little irregularities of everyday spoken English that drive our students (and you, Bamby, apparently) a bit bonkers.

It's funny you said this. "Aren't I" is incorrect. If you want to use "Am I not" as an irregularity, just use it as "I am not a cat?".(paraphrasing is needed so it can sound like a question). Are not I is incorrect. You and Merriam Webster's dictionary are bonkers. We never use "I are". It is always "I am".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care about him losing patience. I'm beginning to lose my patient. It seems that this topic drift into teaching "phrase". I don't need NO one teaching me about simple phrases.

Sorry, but I really don't think you're in a position to criticize the language usage of other posters...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MO39



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first useful thing I learned when first toddling off to university many years ago was that the beginning of wisdom is realizing how little you know and that the truly wise person is never afraid to admit when she or he is wrong. This also applies to good teachers - when they don't know the answer to a student's question, instead of giving the wrong answer over and over again (much like Bamby, I fear), they say they'll look it up and report back to class the next day with the correct answer.

I don't think that Bamby is a troll, but what on earth is he (or she)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bamby



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MO39 wrote:
The first useful thing I learned when first toddling off to university many years ago was that the beginning of wisdom is realizing how little you know and that the truly wise person is never afraid to admit when she or he is wrong. This also applies to good teachers - when they don't know the answer to a student's question, instead of giving the wrong answer over and over again (much like Bamby, I fear), they say they'll look it up and report back to class the next day with the correct answer.

I don't think that Bamby is a troll, but what on earth is he (or she)?

What wrong answer I gave? Aren't I is INCORRECT. It is not irregular. This is irregular:

1. Are-Is
2. Was-Were

That is what you call irregular. Another example:

1. Funny-Funnier-Funniest
2. Beautiful-More Beautiful-The Most Beautiful
3. Old-Elder-Eldest.

The above examples are "irregular". You cannot take something that is INCORRECT and apply it as "irregular". Aren't I is WRONG!Whoever thinks otherwise is an idiot. "Irregular words consists of verbs, adverbs, or adjectives. If anyone want to believe "Aren't I" is irregular then the correct way is "Is I" which is still INCORRECT. I don't care what Merriam Webster say or any other textbook. There is no such thing as "Are not I" or "I are not". That is not "irregular"; it is down right wrong!

You can have the correct verb in a sentence and make it "irregular". Much like rhetorical questions. Example:

"Do you know what will happen to you". In this case it should be a question mark not a period. However, it is not "literally" a question; it is a statement.

1. I am not going?
2. I am not going.

One of those sentences are rhetorical and irregular. The other is regular.


Last edited by Bamby on Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bamby



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
I don't care about him losing patience. I'm beginning to lose my patient. It seems that this topic drift into teaching "phrase". I don't need NO one teaching me about simple phrases.

Sorry, but I really don't think you're in a position to criticize the language usage of other posters...

Sorry you took too long to reply. I am in a GOOD position to criticize. Whoever thinks "Our lives are together closer and closer" is correct and try to make it into some damn "modifier" is in no position to teach or criticize anyone. Whoever says "Aren't I" is correct but irregular is in no position to teach or criticize.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no time limit for responses here.

Regardless of your correctness about the original post, your later language usage indicates that you could use some English language help.

Further, the expletives you've chosen to use on the thread are considered highly rude in the context.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps "Bamby" can give us her/his own definitions for phrase and clause.

Also...

http://marksesl.com/Grammar/aren%27t.html

The contraction for "are not" is usually used in questions like: "Aren't I going with you?" However, "am" is the proper be-verb to be used with the pronoun "I": "I am going with you." The technically ungrammatical usage of "aren't" in questions where "I" is the subject can be considered a "forced" mistake, because there is no good grammatically correct alternative. There is no contraction for "am not;" we don't say "Amn't I going ... ?," and the uncontracted form, "Am I not going with you?," sounds so formal that it is not practical in most situations. Consequently, even though "aren't I" is technically ungrammatical, and can sound a bit jarring to the ear, it is considered correct in normal conversational speech.

Additional note:
Michael Swan: Practical English Usage
    'Am not' is normally only contracted in questions to 'aren't'.
    The question tag for 'I am' is 'aren't I'? ('I'm late, aren't I?')
I'll take Swan over "Bamby" any day. Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bamby



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
There is no time limit for responses here.

Regardless of your correctness about the original post, your later language usage indicates that you could use some English language help.

Further, the expletives you've chosen to use on the thread are considered highly rude in the context.

I have no doubt I spelled words wrong or even used the wrong tense. However, I am not going back to proof read or correct it. Tough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bamby



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henry_Cowell wrote:
Perhaps "Bamby" can give us her/his own definitions for phrase and clause.

Also...

http://marksesl.com/Grammar/aren%27t.html

The contraction for "are not" is usually used in questions like: "Aren't I going with you?" However, "am" is the proper be-verb to be used with the pronoun "I": "I am going with you." The technically ungrammatical usage of "aren't" in questions where "I" is the subject can be considered a "forced" mistake, because there is no good grammatically correct alternative. There is no contraction for "am not;" we don't say "Amn't I going ... ?," and the uncontracted form, "Am I not going with you?," sounds so formal that it is not practical in most situations. Consequently, even though "aren't I" is technically ungrammatical, and can sound a bit jarring to the ear, it is considered correct in normal conversational speech.

Additional note:
Michael Swan: Practical English Usage
    'Am not' is normally only contracted in questions to 'aren't'.
    The question tag for 'I am' is 'aren't I'? ('I'm late, aren't I?')
I'll take Swan over "Bamby" any day. Cool

It sounds like you are agreeing with me. I never, ever said we say "Amn't I going" I never said no such thing. "Am I not going" is correct. "Am not I going' is incorrect. I don't even know what made you come up with that. Aren't I is wrong even if people want to make it correct in conversational "speech". You wouldn't never ask a question with "I am". 'I am' does not become 'aren't I'. You are reaching for straws. Is 'are' replacing 'I' and 'I' replacing 'am'. You people can't dispute the truth so you keep grabbing for straws because you have too much pride to admit that you are wrong. "Aren't I" is never correct. 'Are not I' is not a "forced" error. It comes from stupidity. It is not correct even if it is spoken. It's WRONG!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teaching qualifications include the ability to work with others, both students and collegues, by definition.

A quality not in evidence in Bamby's posts.

It's pretty hypocritical to slam what you consider the mistakes of others when your own mistakes on the same threads are far more egregious than the original 'error' in question.

Before you take a moment to consider which curse words you want to aim at me in your next post, let me tell you to save your time - I'm out of this thread.

But I've been around on Dave's for over 10 years now. Believe me, we don't need Bamby's 'wisdom' to make it here Very Happy And I'll be very much around on other threads, as always.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bamby



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
Teaching qualifications include the ability to work with others, both students and collegues, by definition.

A quality not in evidence in Bamby's posts.

It's pretty hypocritical to slam what you consider the mistakes of others when your own mistakes on the same threads are far more egregious than the original 'error' in question.

Before you take a moment to consider which curse words you want to aim at me in your next post, let me tell you to save your time - I'm out of this thread.

But I've been around on Dave's for over 10 years now. Believe me, we don't need Bamby's 'wisdom' to make it here Very Happy And I'll be very much around on other threads, as always.

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Please accept my apology.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the apology, but you really haven't the power to hurt my feelings in the least. That wasn't my feeling at all.

Just grateful that I am out of the realm of having to work with anyone with such a chip on his/her shoulder.

It's really not cool to curse at colleagues and peers, nor to slam the grammar questions of others when your own usage in the process is highly questionable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bamby wrote:
You wouldn't never ask a question with "I am".

Oh dear. And you are lecturing the rest of us about grammar? Embarassed

You really must learn what a "tag question" is. I'll still take Michael Swan over you in discussions of what is acceptable in English. And have you come up with your definitions of phrase and clause yet?

Then of course there's this:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=678866&highlight=#678866
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's quickly get back to discussing the message and not the messenger. If not, there will be sanctions. Future personal attack on this thread will see the responsible member(s) taking a long (possibly permanent) vacation without pay.

Please notify the Mod Team of all inappropriate postings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bamby



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henry_Cowell wrote:
Bamby wrote:
You wouldn't never ask a question with "I am".

Oh dear. And you are lecturing the rest of us about grammar? Embarassed

You really must learn what a "tag question" is. I'll still take Michael Swan over you in discussions of what is acceptable in English. And have you come up with your definitions of phrase and clause yet?

Then of course there's this:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=678866&highlight=#678866

Give me a break. I suppose you didn't read my posts. You just need to counterpunch. Give it up. And what are you talking about "your" definitions of phrase and clause". Who asks me for my definition of phrase and clause? I said I don't need no one teaching me about phrases. Please don't start with me. I was letting this go.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 5 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China