Job Discussion Forums

[melilly]

Oh my gosh, that's hilarious! Thanks for making me laugh this morning.

How many times will you use my user name in your next post? Remember to place it strategically for optimum effect.

Thanks for making this disussion a comical farce and one of the most viewed this week.

Really enjoyed the way you flipped things around this time, how you like to put words in people's mouths and I can put words in your mouth at will and how you're putting my words in my own mouth and how some words have been taken directly from my mouth to your mouth...

It's so confusing, yet quite amusing!

I had not idea you were so funny!

Thanks to everyone on the "Please do your homework" posting team for all of your efforts and contributions thus far, great job, congrats, way to go and keep up the excellent work and all that.

It's been a fantastic run with 1261 page views and counting and it looks like the only discussion that beat us this week was, "Damn teachers that spend all their free time w/students," another farcical romp in the make-believe world of teachers who spend way too much of their time judging and looking down their noses at others.

As the saying goes, "Never beat a dead horse."

Take it away, Mr. Legitimate!

[kungfucowboy83]

What exactly did you mean when you said "all teachers are equal"?

it's obivous all teachers are not equally educated, equally skilled, equally dedicated, or equally talented. so where exactly are they equal?

as an example i'm a better teacher than some of the people i worked with and others were far better than i. i tried to learn from everyone so i guess in that they were equal but i tried to learn what not to do from the bad ones and what to do from the good ones.

[vikuk]

[melilly]

I mean on this forum, here, in EFL teacher cyberspace, we're all equal.

My meaning may be too abstract or philosophical for this kind of forum.

I mean we're all in this together, so to speak.

No one teacher is above, or below, the next.

This discussion, in my view, is not about education, skills, dedication or talent, and it's not about being good or bad teachers.

It's about people who come onto these sites and post discussions that put other people down. It's about people who think they're better only because they think their definitions are the only right or "legitimate" ones.

I'm not a backpacker or an escapee, but I'll defend them, because they are neither above or below, better or worse, than the next person. THEY ARE OUR EQUALS HERE, BECAUSE THEY ARE EFL TEACHERS, TOO.

Disclaimer: If I've come across as a superior snob while doing so, that's my own fault.

But it doesn't make me one. Not in the places of the human heart and soul Mr. Orwell wrote so eloquently about, not where it really matters.

[arioch36]

Melilly

[Orrin]

@melily,

Thank you for making my point a lot easier to get across. The vast majority of unqualified backpackers and escapees are most definitely NOT true ESL teachers! That statement is not opinion, but a statement of documented fact.

The unqualified backpackers and/or escapees have been driven out of countries like Japan, Korea, Taiwan and Thailand by rigidly enforced qualification requirements for FTs. What has happened in those aforementioned countries after the �purge� is that the average ESL teachers� pay scale in those countries has gone up. Unfortunately, many of those who have been forced out; or those similar: unqualified, would-be, pseudo-ESL teachers who are looking for a gig in Asia have turned up in China. In doing so, they have polluted the waters that the rest of us have to swim in.

Once China begins to implement some of the much stricter qualification and documentation procedures for teachers that other neighboring countries have, we will see much of the same thing happen here. Namely, the �dead wood� will be washed away and the overall conditions for the remaining legitimate, qualified teachers will improve. What could possibly be wrong with that?

From what I have read on this and other boards is that the unqualified backpackers and escapees should move on to Viet Nam. There, it is my understanding that the only qualifications one needs to get a position there are: a.) be Caucasian, b.) walk upright, and c.) have a pulse.

[melilly]

You're welcome.

I'm not afraid to show a little humility and cooperation here.

And I certainly don't intend to be a coward like those who would "team up" with other posters by using chummy pecking-order complaints like "shame on you" for trying to communicate or reach some kind of resolution on this thread.

What exactly is Mr. "High Standards", oops, excuse me, I meant to say Sir "Shame On You", trying to prove? There's nothing to prove here. Most of this stuff means absolutely nothing.

There are no last words here, and, as much as this may frighten you, no places or people to hide behind.

The moment a backpacker or escapee, the terms that the OP used, not my own, steps into an EFL classroom, he or she becomes by the very nature of things a TRUE EFL TEACHER.

The rest is YOUR point of view, your opinion, your speculation, your definitions of the truth.

Everything I write is my truth only. Even when I make mistakes and get caught up in the heat of the battle at least I'm humble enough to admit it.

Some valid points made recently, and respectfully.

The OP didn't say it that way. That's why I'm here, because of what the OP wrote, not what other posters are writing and certainly not because of the comments of one pathetic coward.

The unqualified, the untrue, the would-be, the pseudo, the illigitimate, all good topics for discussion, but without judgement, without this idea that just because they don't match our standards or definitions that they're not legitimate or worthy or true "teachers."

This is cyberspace, and we're annonymous here for a reason. It levels the playing field and makes us all...

EQUAL.

[Ahchoo]

The question is, what determines 'qualified'?
a degree in horticulture/political science/electronics?
A TESOL/TEFOL?CELTA certificate?
A degree in education and actual teaching experience in ones home country?
I would suggest that if it were the latter very few on here, including the main protagonists, could say they were 'qualified'.
I knew a guy with a political science degree who insisted he was a qualified teacher. I begged to differ.
Qualified to teach in China maybe, but a qualified teacher? No.

[melilly]

Good questions and comments, all!
Done without judging or putting people down, just begging to differ.
Imagine that.

[kev7161]

On one hand: Melilly has a point. As long as China's schools will essentially hire anyone with a pulse, some sort of degree/certificate/fake credentials/trumped up resume in hand, then we are all equal . . . in China. I also agree that almost anyone can walk into a classroom and teach *ahem!* "Spoken English" albeit to varying degrees of success. Some can joke and sing songs and play the guitar and their students love them, so they are a success. Some can go in with well-prepared lesson plans and activities and, if taught in an engaging manner, some students and certainly school officials may well love them.

BUT on the other hand . . . if the day comes that a "backpacker" lands at a school where he or she must create viable lesson plans on a daily basis, create a syllabus, present short-term and long-term goals, do a demo class to showcase his/her skills, prove positive outcomes for lessons given, etc., then I'm guessing some teachers are NOT as equal as others. Strumming the guitar and teaching slang (including the curse words - tee-hee!) just won't cut it.

I think if a school wants to pay 3500 or 4000 a month to someone that can pluck guitar strings (sorry, it's the only instrument that comes to mind - uh, hum on a harmonica?) and talk endlessly about their fascinating lives while the students listen enraptured, then some of us know to stay away from those sort of schools (and some *cough!* don't) and leave them for the EFL backpackers. There ARE jobs out there for the professionals and credentialed. It's just a matter of seeking them out and hanging onto them once you find them.

[shuize]

[melilly]

I had a guy get a uni job over me once, it was a job I really wanted.
He had a fake master's in "Water Science".
It's wasn't his fault. I didn't blame him.
There will always be people with little or no experience and with fake degrees and qualifications.
There will always be native English speakers who travel the globe "strutting and fretting upon the stage" as guitar players and backpackers and escapees, and some of them will wind up in EFL classrooms.
That's life.
They will come and go, rise and fall, fail and succeed, win and lose, all on their own.
It's NOT their fault and it's NOT their lesson to learn.
It's OURS.
We, the EFL teachers of the world, have no right to judge or blame them.
Those who are going, falling, failing, and losing are usually the people who let bitterness and the blame game rule the day.

[melilly]

[beck's]

The China EFL market it hot.

Backpackers, Jesus Freaks, Trustfundafarians and others have no trouble finding jobs here if they remove their nose rings, cut their dreads and cover up their tatoos. I know guys teaching university here who drove cabs in the States. I know other guys who have been refused employment because they didn't have the brains to cover up their ink. They walked into the FAO looking like a human illustration and didn't get pass the secretary. TIC. Who the fu-ck knows, maybe they had Phds in education.

We are living in the frontier. China is capitalism with Stalinist characteristics. The market decides here. I'm lovin' it (apologies to Ronald) as a hyper-qualified retiree from the Blackboard Jungle. No meetings, no discipline, no helicopter parents, no incompetent administration, no school boards, no endless marking and most of all, no politics. Four grand and perks in the boonies. If Mrs. Becks and I were willing to stay another year and didn't jet around Asia we'd financially be ahead of the game.

Great kids, not critical thinkers or analytical or anything like that but damn nice. Anyone, and I mean anyone who complains about this job hasn't done jacksh-t as a "real" teacher in a classroom at home. That's the truth. So many on this board have romantic notions of what it's like to be a qualified teacher in the west. Mrs. Becks and I raised two kids on a teacher's salary and we lived pay cheque to pay cheque. A bottle of wine and a pizza on Friday night were luxuries.

[arioch36]

Beck