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| Would you vote for Obama or McCain? |
| Obama |
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68% |
[ 17 ] |
| McCain |
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32% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 25 |
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Message |
corporatehuman
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Mexico City
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 Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| jillford64 wrote: |
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| After watching the Hillary Clinton vs. Obama debacle I really feel demographics have everything to do with voting, and who people are able to personally identify with. |
If demographics had everything to do with voting, Clinton would have won. In the United States, more than 50% of the population are women while blacks only make up 12% [The Economist, 8/23/08]. |
Yes I agree. But of course you are ignoring age. I said middle-aged women would have generally voted for Hillary Clinton, not -all- women. Young women would generally vote for Obama. Ah the woman divide! |
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sweeney66
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 147
Location: "home"
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:19 am Post subject: |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/magazine/24Obamanomics-t.html
This is why I am considering voting for Obama, as opposed to not voting.
He has, or says he has, ideas about addressing social inequality in the US.
Like I said, I don't trust any of them.
And I don't believe that the electoral process is anything but completely corrupt. |
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jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: |
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I'm sitting here watching Obama give his speech. So far I like what I hear but I think he'll have a hard time doing anything for the working class because of the special interest groups.
What do you all think the Mexicans think of Obama?? Who does Mexico like? Obama or Grandpa, I mean McCain.  |
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dixie
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 644
Location: D.F
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| jfurgers wrote: |
I'm sitting here watching Obama give his speech. So far I like what I hear but I think he'll have a hard time doing anything for the working class because of the special interest groups.
What do you all think the Mexicans think of Obama?? Who does Mexico like? Obama or Grandpa, I mean McCain. |
When my prepa kids had to write research essays, quite a few of them wanted to write about the current elections, and they were all (nearly all - I don't quite remember) in support of Obama. Unfortunately I fail to remember why (100+ essays does that) although I think McCain's support of the wall was a big factor... |
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jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Yea, I think Mexico would like Obama more than McCain. Especially after his speech this evening. He was saying that a parent shouldn't be seperated from their kids just because they're in the States illegally. Seems like he directed it toward the people who work for a living and are worried about their future.
Which party in Mexico SAY that they are for the working people?? Does such a party exist here? Just wondering since I don't know much about Mexican politics. |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| corporatehuman wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
I think Obama would never have gotten to where he is if he was white. He is the Democratic candidate because he's black and about as opposite as you can get from Bush. Clinton was a close second. The Dems want to break with tradition this year. It's the highest form of affirmative action at work.
He normally would never have had a snowball's chance in h__l. |
I've heard the argument about Obama's race being the only thing carrying him through. Of course people are quick to pin that up as the only factor of Obama's meteoric rise (as the NY times says.); but that is ignoring other big facts, like Obama is a natural-born politician......
To say Obama is just the Democratic Nominee for one reason (his race) just dwindles everything down, all the factors of his 'meteoric rise', to make one simple statement, and a deceptive one. If only it just took being black to be the Democratic Nominee, I'm sure a lot of other people are going to be pissed off! If you are going to argue about where Obama is (how he has succeeded in cut-throat national politics) you have to look beyond his skin color. |
When I read Prof. Gringo's comment that Obama got the nomination because he's black, sort of as a form of affirmative action, my "liberal" hackles rose, but I didn't want to respond in that state of mind. Thank you. corporate human, for posting a response I wish I'd written. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| MO39 wrote: |
| corporatehuman wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
I think Obama would never have gotten to where he is if he was white. He is the Democratic candidate because he's black and about as opposite as you can get from Bush. Clinton was a close second. The Dems want to break with tradition this year. It's the highest form of affirmative action at work.
He normally would never have had a snowball's chance in h__l. |
I've heard the argument about Obama's race being the only thing carrying him through. Of course people are quick to pin that up as the only factor of Obama's meteoric rise (as the NY times says.); but that is ignoring other big facts, like Obama is a natural-born politician......
To say Obama is just the Democratic Nominee for one reason (his race) just dwindles everything down, all the factors of his 'meteoric rise', to make one simple statement, and a deceptive one. If only it just took being black to be the Democratic Nominee, I'm sure a lot of other people are going to be pissed off! If you are going to argue about where Obama is (how he has succeeded in cut-throat national politics) you have to look beyond his skin color. |
When I read Prof. Gringo's comment that Obama got the nomination because he's black, sort of as a form of affirmative action, my "liberal" hackles rose, but I didn't want to respond in that state of mind. Thank you. corporate human, for posting a response I wish I'd written. |
Say what you want, I stand by my statement. I will vote for Obama. Not because he's black, but because he's better in some ways than McCain. Many people will vote based on race. Just to see a black man in the White House. That's fine. It's free choice. Others will be the "reactionaries" that the liberals always crow about. This is what I hate about the US. Narrow minded people on the right and left are ripping the country apart and they only care about themselves, not the greater good.
Republicans will play on racial fears and ignorance to discredit Obama. Democrats will call anybody that doesn't vote for Obama a racist and a bigot.
BTW if Obama is such a strong candidate, where did his 7 point lead go? In one month McCain gained 13 points to be up on Obama by 5 points. The election will be decided as always by the center. Amazing that Obama doesn't have a double digit lead after 8 years of Bush, his war, the economy etc. The Democrat should have a comfortable lead. The fact is Obama has a real fight ahead of him. |
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jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Obama will loose and grandpa will be in the White House for his one term. (McCain has already said he only wants one term. Probably because of his age). Hillary will try again in 2012.
Yes Pro.Gringo, one would think that Obama should be ahead when you look at the economy and other things. The same was thought with Gore in 2000. He should have won but the rich boy got in.
Watch Foxnews! They will be talking more and more about terror the closer we get to the election. That's what the Repubs did four years ago to scare the people.
It's soooo true, Obama is only where he is because he's a black man. Nominating him shows how stupid the dems are. Wanna loose the White House? Nominate an inexperienced black man. I'm shocked that Obama and McCain are the best candidates both parties were able to come up with???? Makes Mexican politicians look good.Sad time for the States. |
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jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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The Dems had someone with experience...Hillary. Then they turn their backs on her after all her husband did for blacks (remember the blacks called him their first president) and turned to a young,inexperienced nobody.
The Dems follow no logic. They will NOT win. Had they any brains at all they would have gotten Hillary the nomination but then the blacks would have cried that we whites are bad people.Racists.
Mexico's piliticians look better than the two clowns we have. |
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jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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McCain has named his running mate and it's a woman. Sarah Palin. She's the gov of Alaska. This just keeps getting better and better. what will the Mexicans think?  |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| jfurgers wrote: |
| McCain has named his running mate and it's a woman. Sarah Palin. She's the gov of Alaska. This just keeps getting better and better. what will the Mexicans think? |
Yes, this is great!
No matter what happens, it will be a first. I was expecting McCain to throw the VP to a darkhorse. I was expecting either Lieberman or Rice. But Palin is a good choice. Let's see how the Clinton supporters take this one. Torn between their liberal and feminist "feelings" at seeing a woman at least be VP or voting for Obama and continuing the same old, same old, albeit, with a liberal black man, for president.
McCain is going to get a good bounce from this. Perfect timing.
The problem with Dems is thay vote with their hearts, not with their heads. Republicans at least have the sense to rally around their person. Look at what Romney did. He could have kept up the fight against McCain. But he realized if the Republicans were going to have any chance in November, they had to support one candidate after Super Tuesday. What did Clinton do? She continued the primary fight till June. That badly damaged Obama and now it's all coming back to bite the Dems in the a$$.
What is really important this election year is not if we get the oldest pres ever, the first black or the first woman pres, but that the Democratic party fielded the strongest possible candidate in the general election. This is the Dems election to lose. And sadly, it looks like they are on their way to losing again, just like in 2004.
Why didn't Obama pick Clinton and make the dream ticket come true? Instead he picked Biden. Biden gets me about as excited as left-over potato salad from last weekends picknick. |
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corporatehuman
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jfurgers wrote: |
The Dems had someone with experience...Hillary. Then they turn their backs on her after all her husband did for blacks (remember the blacks called him their first president) and turned to a young,inexperienced nobody.
The Dems follow no logic. They will NOT win. Had they any brains at all they would have gotten Hillary the nomination but then the blacks would have cried that we whites are bad people.Racists.
Mexico's piliticians look better than the two clowns we have. |
I can't really figure out where you are coming from...in your world there's this big group of 'the blacks' and then there is your big group of 'the whites' and you all yell at each other and call each other racist? The people that voted for Obama are black, white, hispanic, asian, arabic, etc. just as the people that voted for Hillary were black, white, hispanic, asian, arabic etc. of course they voted in different proportions.
It wasn't just 'the blacks' that gave Obama the democratic nomination. There's a bunch of other races mixed in there...but for some reason again it makes it easier to get upset and mad when you just make this nomination process about one single thing; race. It isn't just about race. Obama's campaign figured that out, haven't you? If only 'the blacks' voted for Obama he would have lost. Did you even know that...some black people voted for Hillary Clinton?? I guess that would make them white though in your book, just so we can keep things simple.
Uhh..Bill Clinton the first black president? I -know- this is something he used for a long time as his mantra...but...he's white. So he's not the first black president. He's the first white guy who wanted to be a black guy that was president.
You don't know whether or not Obama will win or lose the election. Polls are deceptive, but as of right now they are mostly even. There have been no debates. There have been no huge blunders. The presidential campaign has not truly, truly begun. Don't worry about the polls now, because as we all know, there is only one poll that matters, and that is the election.
I happen to think Obama will win. I have no idea why many people think he will not win after how well he did in the primary. Actually Obama, I think, will take some typical Republican states such as: Montana, Colorado, maybe even Idaho! He will take Pennsylvania, I am sure, all of the North East...the election will come down to Ohio again. Which does make me nervous.
Inexperience is a tired point. Experience gets you people like Hillary who are closed, guarded, and frustrated. Experience gets you a divided house that cannot manage to pass any bill of significance (note: immigration.) Obama's strength is his experience, but it just isn't on a sufficiently national level for you. It's Chicago politics. You'd be surprised, but even from the bottom up, politics doesn't change all that drastically. You have to make concessions, hide your true feelings, 'play the game' whatever level you are on.
Hillary lost because she ran a bad campaign, and that's it. She should have won; she had all the initial money, all the press, every state above 20 points, and she lost? How? Because her campaign did not adjust, made no attempt to address caucuses, did not use technology, could not decide on its 'direction.' One thing Obama did is start with an idea and stick with it. The hope thing. It's simple, sweet, and it goes after your heart rather than your head. It's irrational. Basically, brilliant politics.
No use in being bitter about Hillary losing, or trying to paint the doomsday scenario for Obama. Let the campaigns play out and you might end up even being surprised. |
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jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
But Palin is a good choice. Let's see how the Clinton supporters take this one. Torn between their liberal and feminist "feelings" at seeing a woman at least be VP or voting for Obama and continuing the same old, same old, albeit, with a liberal black man, for president.
The problem with Dems is thay vote with their hearts, not with their heads. Republicans at least have the sense to rally around their person. Look at what Romney did. He could have kept up the fight against McCain. But he realized if the Republicans were going to have any chance in November, they had to support one candidate after Super Tuesday. What did Clinton do? She continued the primary fight till June. That badly damaged Obama and now it's all coming back to bite the Dems in the a$$.
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Amen Prof. gringo. They always do things with their feelings, no logic. Kind of like Mexican politics?? |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jfurgers wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
But Palin is a good choice. Let's see how the Clinton supporters take this one. Torn between their liberal and feminist "feelings" at seeing a woman at least be VP or voting for Obama and continuing the same old, same old, albeit, with a liberal black man, for president.
The problem with Dems is thay vote with their hearts, not with their heads. Republicans at least have the sense to rally around their person. Look at what Romney did. He could have kept up the fight against McCain. But he realized if the Republicans were going to have any chance in November, they had to support one candidate after Super Tuesday. What did Clinton do? She continued the primary fight till June. That badly damaged Obama and now it's all coming back to bite the Dems in the a$$.
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Amen Prof. gringo. They always do things with their feelings, no logic. Kind of like Mexican politics?? |
Just remember AMLO. |
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jfurgers
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| corporatehuman wrote: |
I can't really figure out where you are coming from.
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I know. And it's OK. Remember...
Dems...feelings
Repubs and independents...logical
I can't wait to hear what some Mexicans say about McCain's pick. Let's see if they view it for what it is...progress. |
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